Our Clubs History Is Embarrassing

[Glenn]

Everyone has the right to a opinion, agreeing with it is another matter.
Personally while it would be great if we could win the Fizz Wizz cup, just for the sake of winning it, the way I see it it is more important to give some players senior experience in a competitve match, especially in the case of Sydney where we dont have the luxury of a quality second tier comp like the VFL,WAFL etc
To my way of thinking the only people that remember who won the preseason comp, are the fans of that club.
The real focus should be getting the Flag flying from the Harbour Bridge

[swan_song]

I love the passion people display on here for the Swannies. I have no issue with anyone bagging them -- players, officials, etc --for bad performances etc, likewise praising them for meritorious effort.
I believe I am as passionate as the next Swan supporter, and I do have a really really big concern over our Wiz Cup attitude... I believe losing can sometimes be put down to a mindset, a negativity, as much as or more so than ability. For a good, but not great side, winning can bring its own momentum...
The Wiz is used by many clubs as a means of boosting supporter base...there can be very few people who would have been inspired by last years rd 1 capitulation to a mediocre Carlton, or this year's B-team effort against the doggies, to go out and buy a membership/season ticket...
I also want the team in its best available form for the season opener proper...I'm not sure that the way we go about it is the best way to achieve that... It's a real dilemma about which way to go....
I believe that some teams have taken it seriously these past few years - St Kilda, Geelong, Brisbane, Port Adelaide -- teams that have been serious contenders for September glory.

[boroboy]

Originally posted by swan_song
I believe that some teams have taken it seriously these past few years - St Kilda, Geelong, Brisbane, Port Adelaide -- teams that have been serious contenders for September glory.

Agreed. Watched Grant Thomas interviewed before the Saints game who said the Wizard Cup is no different to anything else they do - they want the mindset of winning every game they play. I don't think we have that - and I get frustrated when it was an absolute certainty we were going to get beat on Saturday before we even set foot on the paddock. No excuse that we had so many players out either - if the self belief is lacking from the start then there's only one outcome - and there was no reason why our boys couldn't have given a very average Doggies side a touch up. Very disappointing IMHO.

[Glenn]

If the likes of Hall,Maxfield,Ball etc played and one or ( heaven forbid) more went down with injury would people be so keen playing them in a pre season competiton.
Still maintain the focus should be on the last Saturday in September not sometime in March.
Would be interesting to see how many teams have done the Pre-Season/AFL premiership double

[Beaussie]

Originally posted by boroboy
Agreed. Watched Grant Thomas interviewed before the Saints game who said the Wizard Cup is no different to anything else they do - they want the mindset of winning every game they play. I don't think we have that - and I get frustrated when it was an absolute certainty we were going to get beat on Saturday before we even set foot on the paddock. No excuse that we had so many players out either - if the self belief is lacking from the start then there's only one outcome - and there was no reason why our boys couldn't have given a very average Doggies side a touch up. Very disappointing IMHO.

Totally agree with all of the above. I'm not just very disappointed, I'm very upset that we don't seem to have the mindset as you put it, of winning every game we play. Is it any wonder why we haven't won a premiership since 1933.

[ROK Lobster]

Originally posted by Beaussie
Totally agree with all of the above. I'm not just very disappointed, I'm very upset that we don't seem to have the mindset as you put it, of winning every game we play. Is it any wonder why we haven't won a premiership since 1933.

I'm not sure they take the same mindset into Sept as they do Feb/March.

[Wazza]

Originally posted by Glenn
If the likes of Hall,Maxfield,Ball etc played and one or ( heaven forbid) more went down with injury would people be so keen playing them in a pre season competiton.
Still maintain the focus should be on the last Saturday in September not sometime in March.
Would be interesting to see how many teams have done the Pre-Season/AFL premiership double

Exactly the same injuries could happen in the first game of the season so that argument doesnt really stand.

I believe the coaches that take the Wiz cup seriously believe in building a winning culture early, there may not be many winning doubles but plenty of these teams are consistently in the top 4.

Im suprised because Sydney (patrons) will back a winner and the best result for AFL in NSW at this stage would be for the Swans to win a Wiz cup it would be a great boost just before the season begun.

The last couple of years have seen very flat buildup to the start of the season, a Wiz win or final appearance would provide promotion and build some early expectation in the market place that the swans may be in for a good year. Plenty of people in Sydney sit back to see how the Swans are going, so if we dont build the excitement early they wont come.


Cheers

Waz

[Glenn]

At least they would be on the field for Round 1 of the premiership, instead of sitting on the sidelines thanks to a pre season injury after trying to win a comp that pails into insignificance compared to the AFL premiership

[boroboy]

Originally posted by Glenn
At least they would be on the field for Round 1 of the premiership, instead of sitting on the sidelines thanks to a pre season injury after trying to win a comp that pails into insignificance compared to the AFL premiership

You're right - it does pale into insignificance. But that's missing the point several of us are trying to make - which is to argue that taking it seriously may, just may, give us a better chance of winning the flag.

As for injuries - don't you think Grant Thomas thought about the possibility of Riewoldt getting a knock in the Wiz? - but he still played....

[Wazza]

Originally posted by Glenn
At least they would be on the field for Round 1 of the premiership, instead of sitting on the sidelines thanks to a pre season injury after trying to win a comp that pails into insignificance compared to the AFL premiership

And if they do a knee in round 1 and miss the season? whats been achieved - squat. Cant use the injury argument.

If they take the Wiz seriously make the finals get a week of promotion and a great media build up for the first game and fill the SCG for the 1st game of the season, wouldnt that be a great thing for the Swans and the game in NSW?

My point is the Swans have to be successful to survive and for the game to grow in NSW.

Cheers

waz

[liz]

Originally posted by boroboy


As for injuries - don't you think Grant Thomas thought about the possibility of Riewoldt getting a knock in the Wiz? - but he still played....

Riewoldt is young and in his prime. It is unlikely that he will be worn out by season end by dint of being up and running now.

It's a slightly different situation with players over 30, especially ones who all had niggles during the prior year. The stance on Williams, Maxfield and Ball is probably justified.

Of the rest who missed -

Crouch and Schauble aren't fit to play at the moment and wouldn't have played even if it had been for premiership points

Mathews and Barry are recovering from bone injuries in their feet and haven't been back running very long.

Goodes, too, is still easing back into training.

It is possible that the recovery programmes for these three would have been accelerated had Roos wanted to be competitive in the Wiz Cup but personally I'm glad the club is taking it easy with these three, especially Barry and Goodes who are in our top 5 most important players, unquestionably.

Davis sounds like he has a fair way to go before getting anywhere close to match fitness.

O'Loughlin has to be managed week to week even during the season proper.

I'm guessing Kennelly suffered some minor injury during the Bombers game or in training last week, given that he was originally listed in the squad.

That probably just leaves Hall as the player they were being really cautious with. And arguably just having him in the team might have made the difference. If nothing else it may have given the team the belief they could win, and with that (even without Hall - if that makes sense) I reckon they might have gone close.

[Sanecow]

Originally posted by Wazza
And if they do a knee in round 1 and miss the season? whats been achieved - squat. Cant use the injury argument.

Well, yes you can: the further you go in the Wiz Cup, the more intense it gets (naturally). To play the senior players increases the chance of success and therefore increases the chance of an injury because we advance to the next round. Doing well in the Wiz Cup thus increases the chance of injury. QED.

[boroboy]

Originally posted by liz
Riewoldt is young and in his prime. It is unlikely that he will be worn out by season end by dint of being up and running now.

It's a slightly different situation with players over 30, especially ones who all had niggles during the prior year. The stance on Williams, Maxfield and Ball is probably justified.

Of the rest who missed -

Crouch and Schauble aren't fit to play at the moment and wouldn't have played even if it had been for premiership points

Mathews and Barry are recovering from bone injuries in their feet and haven't been back running very long.

Goodes, too, is still easing back into training.

It is possible that the recovery programmes for these three would have been accelerated had Roos wanted to be competitive in the Wiz Cup but personally I'm glad the club is taking it easy with these three, especially Barry and Goodes who are in our top 5 most important players, unquestionably.

Davis sounds like he has a fair way to go before getting anywhere close to match fitness.

O'Loughlin has to be managed week to week even during the season proper.

I'm guessing Kennelly suffered some minor injury during the Bombers game or in training last week, given that he was originally listed in the squad.

That probably just leaves Hall as the player they were being really cautious with. And arguably just having him in the team might have made the difference. If nothing else it may have given the team the belief they could win, and with that (even without Hall - if that makes sense) I reckon they might have gone close.

I agree with all of your assessments Liz - the argument about Riewoldt was simply backing up Wazza's argument - the fact players can get injured anytime and precautionary measures therefore don't seem justified in some supporters eyes.

However - I still believe the whole mental attitude was wrong before the Doggies game. I reckon I can count on one hand the number of people I read or heard saying the Swans could, or would win - we were beaten before the first siren. And that's the mentality which frustrates me and others. The WC is important to some and it's frustrating to see it 'appear' to be taken lightly by the club. But - having said that - I do understand those who argue the WC doesn't matter - it's just I don't agree with them...

[swansrule100]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Our Clubs History Is Embarrassing

i just dont see how the fans attidude to the team or its history changes the results. Why sit back and winge and complain??? just go along cheer and hope they win, we cant change the way they play!

the coaches do what they feel is best, the wizard cup doesnt count for squat. If we won and then got a wooden spoon everyone would complain we focused on pre season.
I believe roosy knows what he is doing and if it doesnt work out for him in the end someone else will have a go.


Anyway whilst i battle fatigue and try to make some sense :P i will just say lets hope the swans win the 2005 flag and we can celebrate a premiership and not worry about the history or the wizard cup!

[boroboy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Our Clubs History Is Embarrassing

Originally posted by swansrule100
i just dont see how the fans attidude to the team or its history changes the results. Why sit back and winge and complain??? just go along cheer and hope they win, we cant change the way they play!

the coaches do what they feel is best, the wizard cup doesnt count for squat. If we won and then got a wooden spoon everyone would complain we focused on pre season.
I believe roosy knows what he is doing and if it doesnt work out for him in the end someone else will have a go.


Anyway whilst i battle fatigue and try to make some sense :P i will just say lets hope the swans win the 2005 flag and we can celebrate a premiership and not worry about the history or the wizard cup!

It's not the fans attitude - it's the clubs. Port Adelaide's official club motto is "We exist to win Premierships" - go to the club in Alberton and it's plastered everywhere. Their fans really believe it's their god given right to win flags - either in the SANFL or the AFL. And look what happened after only a few years....

I'm not saying our desire to win flags as a club is any less than Port's - of course it's not. But there's a fundamental mindset of win at all costs that I think is missing - and until that's addressed we'll always be the bridesmaid.