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  • giant
    Veterans List
    • Mar 2005
    • 4731

    Originally posted by Ruckman
    Originally posted by Ruckman
    It's none of my business but I was wondering whether you're a short person by any chance?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    My line of questioning milud, replied "Ruckman of of the Bailey" is that big guys having played in the spine usually have a better 'feeling' for what goes on there. I can't remember who it was who said it but the "spiritual benefit of ruckmen" applies to all KPP's, and while many 'grassburners' are oblivious to it (possibly too busy counting stats) they are it's primary beneficiary.
    Ruckmen who have made great coaches? Ummm, Percy Jones? Ron Alexander? Don Scott?

    Comment

    • NMWBloods
      Taking Refuge!!
      • Jan 2003
      • 15819

      [QUOTE]Originally posted by Go Swannies
      [B]cf your previous statements:

      [QUOTE][B]Our previous conversion rate was unsustainably high.[B][QUOTE]

      and

      [QUOTE][B]Teams are typically not able to maintain those conversion ratios indefinitely.[B][QUOTE]

      and

      [QUOTE][B]It suggests that an unbelievably high level is not sustainable for a length of time. That's not the same thing as saying excellence is not sustainable for a period of time (although it of course is limited too).[B][QUOTE]

      and

      [QUOTE][B]Nevertheless, in some cases it is so compelling that it provides a strong case - for example a team might kick 20+ goals 6 weeks in a row, but the evidence suggests this is not sustainable. Common sense suggests it's not also, for a variety of reasons.So? I demonstrated with data that none of this was sustainable. I fail to see how kicking 4.0 in one game is comparable to successive seasons of kicking well. Someone might even do it for a few games, but unlikely to do it for long extended periods. Also, comparing individuals to team accuracy is fraught with difficulties.
      Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

      "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

      Comment

      • NMWBloods
        Taking Refuge!!
        • Jan 2003
        • 15819

        Originally posted by Ruckman
        Good I like to see prats arguing agaist my point of view because it reminds me I'm right.

        There are two ways to view things the quantitative and the qualitative, NMW is a big stats man (amongst others) and I appreciate their research skills. Sometimes I think stats can be misleading, particularly when evaluating players whose primary role isn't the accumulation of stats.
        I find all of this rather insulting. I may use stats but that doesn't preclude me from watching the game and observing other factors as I have done for 30 years. This is a little different to some other people who never use stats at all. A combination is a much better approach.
        Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

        "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

        Comment

        • Sanecow
          Suspended by the MRP
          • Mar 2003
          • 6917

          Originally posted by Ruckman
          My line of questioning milud, replied "Ruckman of of the Bailey" is that big guys having played in the spine usually have a better 'feeling' for what goes on there. [/B]
          For the last three years, Schauble has averaged around 9 possessions and 4 marks a game each year. 7 possessions, 0 marks is sub-par but he is underdone, so it's not unexpected. It really has nothing to do with my height, although I appreciate the epithet "grassburner".

          Comment

          • liz
            Veteran
            Site Admin
            • Jan 2003
            • 16778

            Originally posted by NMWBloods

            (Lockett) also kicked 29.0 in 13 games in 1999.
            Did he? I thought his record stretch of goals without missing was back in 1995 and included the 16 straight he kicked against Fitzroy one afternoon at the Whitten Oval.

            Comment

            • NMWBloods
              Taking Refuge!!
              • Jan 2003
              • 15819

              Originally posted by liz
              Did he? I thought his record stretch of goals without missing was back in 1995 and included the 16 straight he kicked against Fitzroy one afternoon at the Whitten Oval.
              Oops - made a mistake there, mixing up the columns. Thought his goals seemed rather low !!
              Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

              "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

              Comment

              • barry
                Veterans List
                • Jan 2003
                • 8499

                Originally posted by NMWBloods
                Oops - made a mistake there, mixing up the columns. Thought his goals seemed rather low !!
                A good reason never to trust anyone "justifying" their argument with statistics.

                You either have a feel for the game or you dont.

                Comment

                • Sanecow
                  Suspended by the MRP
                  • Mar 2003
                  • 6917

                  You can have a feel for the game and an understanding of statistics. They are not mutually exclusive. Judging players based entirely on feel unfortunately tends to put too much weight on the spectacular.

                  Comment

                  • Newbie
                    On the Rookie List
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 720

                    Originally posted by Sanecow
                    You can have a feel for the game and an understanding of statistics. They are not mutually exclusive. Judging players based entirely on feel unfortunately tends to put too much weight on the spectacular.
                    This is the question that art and science have been in confrontation for sometimes. This is their distinction too.

                    I think we should stop it here. Getting into small technical points serve no purpose at all. Points have been made as far as I am concerned.

                    Comment

                    • Schneiderman
                      The Fourth Captain
                      • Aug 2004
                      • 1615

                      Originally posted by Ruckman
                      Now this is silly, Vogels is a pure forward, so the game after he debut's lets uproot him and play him in the backline for the first time this season. That'll really help him to settle into the firsts
                      Where did you get the fact that he a pure forward from??

                      If anything, its the position he has played LEAST. He moved through the ranks as a wingman and then a KPP backman, winning the Hampden Leagues B&F in that role.



                      In any case, CHF and CHB are often interchangeable - look at Lucas, Leppitsch or McPharlin.
                      Our Greatest Moment:

                      Saturday, 24th Sept, 2005 - 5:13pm

                      Comment

                      • barry
                        Veterans List
                        • Jan 2003
                        • 8499

                        I actually liked the look of the side with Vogels up at FF/FP. MOL is a bit small for that role IMO, and a resting ruckman too slow.

                        With LRT holding down CHB at the moment, persisting with the big V up forward is worth considering.

                        Comment

                        • Schneiderman
                          The Fourth Captain
                          • Aug 2004
                          • 1615

                          Originally posted by barry
                          With LRT holding down CHB at the moment, persisting with the big V up forward is worth considering.
                          I dont doubt it will happen as long as LRT is in the side. But if he gets dropped I say we have a viable option... not to mention a much better one IMO.
                          Our Greatest Moment:

                          Saturday, 24th Sept, 2005 - 5:13pm

                          Comment

                          • NMWBloods
                            Taking Refuge!!
                            • Jan 2003
                            • 15819

                            Originally posted by barry
                            A good reason never to trust anyone "justifying" their argument with statistics.

                            You either have a feel for the game or you dont.
                            Oh, you are so full of crap!

                            I always love the argument whereby you deliberately avoid all the stats and state them to be irrelevant, except when there is a mistake and then you leap on that one as proof of your views and still conveniently avoid the others. Standard strawman argument.
                            Last edited by NMWBloods; 10 May 2005, 02:04 PM.
                            Captain Logic is not steering this tugboat.

                            "[T]here are things that matter more and he's reading and thinking about them: heaven, reincarnation. Life and death are the only things that are truly a matter of life and death. Not football."

                            Comment

                            • barry
                              Veterans List
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 8499

                              Originally posted by NMWBloods
                              Oh, you are so full of crap!

                              I always love the argument whereby you deliberately avoid all the stats and state them to be irrelevant, except when there is a mistake and then you leap on that one as proof of your views and still conveniently avoid the others. Standard strawman argument.
                              I always laugh at people who peddle statistics which are wrong as if it were the gospel truth.
                              Statistic have a useful, but LIMITED role, as long as you have all the statistics. In most cases statistics are over used in AFL.

                              Comment

                              • Sanecow
                                Suspended by the MRP
                                • Mar 2003
                                • 6917

                                Originally posted by barry
                                In most cases statistics are over used in AFL.
                                Nonsense. They are only over used about 40% of the time.

                                Comment

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