Team Changes

[NMWBloods]

My problem with LRT is lack of progress. I could understand that he had a lack of AFL experience when he started in 2003, however I think the progress since then has been only minimal. Given that he has a heap to learn and is building on a pretty small base, one would expect some quite decent development in that time, but it doesn't seem to have happened.

In 5 games this season he has taken 7 marks (2 cont).

Playfair (Geel) 29 (8 cont) in 6 games.
Miller (Melb) 39 (6 cont) in 6 games.
Maguire (StK) 27 (6 cont) in 6 games.
White (Port) 26 (6 cont) in 5 games.

[midaro]

Originally posted by Ruckman
Leaving aside my opinion of the good games I've seen him play, how do you or ROK explain the rising star nomination against the Crows?

LOL Rising star nomination?
Frosty McPherson got a Rising star nomination.
Winning it is one thing, but they have to find a nominee every week form the players that fit a fairly strict criteria. It would be harder to find a first year player who didn't recieve a Rising star nomination, than one who did.

[ugg]

You'll find that quite a few higher draft-picked players miss out on a nomination because they play more than the 10 games in their first year without having a major impact, thus rendering them ineligible for nomination the following years.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
heaps of blokes that get nominations disappear from sight.

And an even bigger heap don't get nominated at all.

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
I cannot fathom the desire elsewhere expressed to give him 2, 3 or even 4 years to 'learn' to play the position of CHB.

Either I missed those posts or I suspect your hyperbole engine's slipped into overdrive again.

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
If the Swans see him as a long term project who still has to learn the game they should come to some sort of arrangement with a VFL or SAFL club and send him to one of them for a couple of years. Or something.

Yor grasp of the draft rules seems only marginally less strong than your grasp of reality.

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
Notice the difference between him and Vogels this week. One is a footballer.

Astonishing, while I've watched Vogels all this year and praised his efforts regularly I'm not ready to make a pronouncement like that, perhaps it's because I think about things rather than suffering from the sort of intemperate verbal incontinence that afflicts others.

Originally posted by ROK Lobster
He is tall, he has very average skills, is slow to make a decision, and positions himself poorly.

Isn't that how Collingwood described Schauble?


Now before things get too adversarial, let me just remind you that LRT played a near full season in 2003, lost 2004 to injury, and IMO (I realise that acronym doesn't mean much to you) his skills by hand and "think time" have improved in 2005.

Secondly I have yet to see him play a senior game at CHB (untill he does I can't see how he can have been tested), and frankly I don't understand how on the one hand people can bemoan McVeigh's lack of sufficient game time to claim a position and at the same time pillory LRT, when they are both in the same boat.

Dropping a potential KPP after 1 season as a bit player is bonkers, Ablett only began to claim a position in the 22 last year(he was drafted in 2000). LRT was drafted a year later, lost another to injury and I see Sanecrow complaining "why can't LRT find the footy?" ~ Ablett's become a tagger to help him learn to find the footy because he couldn't! Your expectations of LRT are clearly ridiculous.

And yes I know people are sick of the "big men take longer" argument (although not as sick as I am of the hysterical and hair brained "sack Benny/Tiger/Fosdike/LRT/Roos/Goodes/InsertNameHere" posts)
For every Riewolt that flowers immediately there's three Jade Rawlings/Andrew Dunkleys/Andrew Schauble/Tom Harley's who take varying amounts of time.

[Barry Schneider]

Ruckman and youngblood should bugger off.They make too much sense.

[Sanecow]

Originally posted by Ruckman
Your expectations of LRT are clearly ridiculous.

Yes, one mark a match is clearly over the top.

[sharpie]

Originally posted by Sanecow
Yes, one mark a match is clearly over the top.

When LRT has actually lined up at CHB, how many marks has his opponent taken? He may still have a lot to learn about getting the ball himself and using it properly, but his defensive work has been very good this year when he has had the opportunity to do so.

[Sanecow]

Originally posted by Ruckman
Secondly I have yet to see him play a senior game at CHB (untill he does I can't see how he can have been tested)

Originally posted by sharpie
When LRT has actually lined up at CHB, how many marks has his opponent taken?

The pro-LRT lobby are a rabble.

[ROK Lobster]

Originally posted by Ruckman
And ... varying amounts of time.

Time will tell Ruckman. I think the club is flogging a dead horse. And there have been more than a few posts suggesting that LRT needs time to learn the game, and a few looking at time frames of 2-4 years. I don't know where, probably in the weekly LRT thread that usually gets started at 1/4 time on a Sat night or Sun afternoon.

The reason I rarely 'IMO' is twofold. Firstly, I don't like 'TLA's much, except the 'TLA' one, which when I first saw it I thought was funny. Secondly, who else opinion would I be giving anyway?

With regard to my knowledge of the draft rules, you are right, non-existent. Fill me in. With regard to my grasp on reality, that is neither here nor there.

My comment with Vogels was more to do with how he reads the play, how he moves around the paddock and how he positions his body, than his ability. I am not ready to make pronouncements on him or Moore either but they have certainly earned their chance.

IMO, or would you prefer IMHO, LRT's development is not being slowed by his size. Rather, it is his simple lack of ability. His abundant athleticism is not enough to overcome his deficiencies of skills and smarts.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by Sanecow
Yes, one mark a match is clearly over the top.

Not the most well reasoned response, especially as I mentioned Tom Harley (he's doesn't mark either)

[Sanecow]

I said:
How hard is it to catch a footy? You'd reckon once a game wouldn't be too much of an ask

You said
Your expectations of LRT are clearly ridiculous.

I said:
Yes, one mark a match is clearly over the top.

You said
Not the most well reasoned response

You can't get much more reasoned than directly addressing the point being discussed. The only expectation I have expressed is one mark a match. You say my expectations are ridiculous. You are wrong. One mark a match is not ridiculous. Check the stats of others in the Swans backline.

Feel free to compare Harley and LRT's marking statistics here.

[Sanecow]

LRT aside, comparing players is fun! Is there a site that ranks more than the top 50 players for each stat?

[Newbie]

Originally posted by NMWBloods
My problem with LRT is lack of progress. I could understand that he had a lack of AFL experience when he started in 2003, however I think the progress since then has been only minimal. Given that he has a heap to learn and is building on a pretty small base, one would expect some quite decent development in that time, but it doesn't seem to have happened.

Cant find a single tall draftee of our own who has shown some form of process in recent years at all.

May be LRT lack of progress is a tribute to our player development more than his own ability. NSW draftees might find it better to move interstate for their career sake rather than staying put in Sydney with the Swans.

[Sanecow]

OK, LRT is ranked in the Swans:

22nd in handballs
24th in kicks
25th in disposals
23rd in marks
Unranked in goals
10th in behinds
25th in tackles
21st in frees for
7th in frees against
5th in hitouts

He is doing awesomely at behinds and frees against, especially since his frees have been given away while maintaining bottom position in tackles and his behinds are without an accidental goal.

Edited becase, shut up! potision is a real word

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Originally posted by Sanecow
You say my expectations are ridiculous.

As you well know (and anyone else who read my post) I was referring to your "why can't LRT find the footy?" bleat.

Originally posted by Sanecow
You say my expectations are ridiculous. You are wrong. One mark a match is not ridiculous. Check the stats of others in the Swans backline.

Indeed I compare a 3rd year LRT to a 3rd year Harley, and you compare a 3rd year LRT to a 7th year Harley, I think your comparison ridiculous and spurious.

Why not compare Paul Kelly's output in his second year to Jayson Danials in his 6th, so you can "prove" that Daniels was better than Kelly.


But thanks for the url, it's a very interesting site.