RIP Jesse Whites Career Part II

[Chilcott]

Maybe the coaches optimism with White, will translate into a better trade deal?

I can see the headline now: "Swans big winners in the 2011 draft - Receive final pick in the draft from GWS for Jesse White"

[royboy42]

Give him a run in defence for god's sake!

Everyone calling for this reminds me of Walls always suggesting Baz should get a run on the ball. But it's a sound idea, just the same

[BSA5]

Everyone calling for this reminds me of Walls always suggesting Baz should get a run on the ball. But it's a sound idea, just the same

He's been tried in the ruck with little success. He's been tried forward with little success. It's defence or the midfield, really, and I know which I'd prefer!

(Actually, the idea of White busting through packs in the midfield is quite a nice thought....)

[Dosser]

He's been tried in the ruck with little success. He's been tried forward with little success. It's defence or the midfield, really, and I know which I'd prefer!

(Actually, the idea of White busting through packs in the midfield is quite a nice thought....)

Unfortunately, judging by recent performances, I dont think he could 'bust' through a soggy pack of Corn Flakes.

[stellation]

I thought this might be a better thread to post this in than to take the Swans/Bombers thread too far OT.
I think the perception of different players is interesting, and the impact it has on how we view their performance.

Just throwing it out there, and not suggesting in that game he would have done any better than LRT, but I reckon Jesse White would have been crucified on here if he had a 3 disposal/8 hitout game. In fact if I recall correctly he was crucified after his last couple of games playing in the ruck (vs. Collingwood and Adelaide), across which he averaged 9 disposals and 8.5 hitouts.

Sometimes that backup ruck gig is a bit tricky.

Players are allowed the occasional quiet game. Jesse's were not occasional, they were the norm. LRT has shown the ability to take contested marks, kick goals, and provide a contest in the ruck. Furthermore, when you kick the ball to LRT, even if he doesn't take the mark, it never rebounds. So many times I've seen the ball kicked to LRT in the contest, and he will MAKE a contest. He will bring the ball to ground, and either get it loose if there's support, or tie it in if there's not. He traps the ball inside 50, which is better than what White has been able to manage.

I was really just throwing it out there, I have no issue with a player having the odd quiet game here or there- but I also have no doubt that Jesse would be put under the microscope for the numbers that Lewis put up in that game.

Here's some averages on the season in the format of Lewis/Jesse
Games played: 12/8
Disposals: 7.1/7 - Contesed: DE%: 66.2/72.9
Marks: 2.6/1.4
Hitouts: 5.5/4.4 - Clearances: 0.7/1.3
Tackles: 2.8/2.5
Goals: 1/0.9

Two things in particular in the perception of the two that I think are interesting that you noted (and I'm not picking on you here, it appears to be a common perception on the board- I know you have a soft spot for him)

LRT has shown the ability to take contested marks, kick goals, and provide a contest in the ruck.

I take that as highlighting a difference between the two;
Goals: obviously the averages are close, and on the season Lewis has kicked 12 to Jesse's 7 (both have 4 behinds). Out of interest I took a quick squiz at the top end vs. bottom end of the ladder (as it stands now), both of them have played 6 games against teams in the top 10 in the comp- Lewis has kicked 4 goals in his 6, Jesse has kicked 6 goals in his 6. Lewis has played 6 games against teams in the bottom 7 of the comp for 8 goals, Jesse has played just the 2 against teams in the bottom 7 for 1 goal.
Ruck: 1 HO per game difference to Lewis, however I think those clearance numbers are very interesting- to me Jesse's clearance rate suggests he provides a decent contest at stoppages. Touching on those games against the top 10/bottom 7 as well, Lewis' HO average has a bit of variance- against the top 10 it is 4.2 but against the bottom 7 it is 6.8, Jesse's averages in those games have minimal variation at 4/5 (granted the 5 is from a small sample size).

So from there as a difference you have the intangibles that you're suggesting that LRT brings, but on paper (and from my perspective having watched the games) I really don't think there's a massive difference in them on the year; certainly not enough to forgive one for a quiet game because he's been solid all year, but deplore the other because he's been horrible all year.

[Melbournehammer]

I thought this might be a better thread to post this in than to take the Swans/Bombers thread too far OT.
I think the perception of different players is interesting, and the impact it has on how we view their performance.


I was really just throwing it out there, I have no issue with a player having the odd quiet game here or there- but I also have no doubt that Jesse would be put under the microscope for the numbers that Lewis put up in that game.

Here's some averages on the season in the format of Lewis/Jesse
Games played: 12/8
Disposals: 7.1/7 - Contesed: DE%: 66.2/72.9
Marks: 2.6/1.4
Hitouts: 5.5/4.4 - Clearances: 0.7/1.3
Tackles: 2.8/2.5
Goals: 1/0.9

Two things in particular in the perception of the two that I think are interesting that you noted (and I'm not picking on you here, it appears to be a common perception on the board- I know you have a soft spot for him)
I take that as highlighting a difference between the two;
Goals: obviously the averages are close, and on the season Lewis has kicked 12 to Jesse's 7 (both have 4 behinds). Out of interest I took a quick squiz at the top end vs. bottom end of the ladder (as it stands now), both of them have played 6 games against teams in the top 10 in the comp- Lewis has kicked 4 goals in his 6, Jesse has kicked 6 goals in his 6. Lewis has played 6 games against teams in the bottom 7 of the comp for 8 goals, Jesse has played just the 2 against teams in the bottom 7 for 1 goal.
Ruck: 1 HO per game difference to Lewis, however I think those clearance numbers are very interesting- to me Jesse's clearance rate suggests he provides a decent contest at stoppages. Touching on those games against the top 10/bottom 7 as well, Lewis' HO average has a bit of variance- against the top 10 it is 4.2 but against the bottom 7 it is 6.8, Jesse's averages in those games have minimal variation at 4/5 (granted the 5 is from a small sample size).

So from there as a difference you have the intangibles that you're suggesting that LRT brings, but on paper (and from my perspective having watched the games) I really don't think there's a massive difference in them on the year; certainly not enough to forgive one for a quiet game because he's been solid all year, but deplore the other because he's been horrible all year.

finally the voice of reason re jesse.

for some reason i have the urge to intone "he's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy". But as with everything we supporters see we see LRT in a golden light because he took some marks in the forward line against a broken down merrett while we curse jesse because he failed to do so.

The difference between their selection in my eye remains that in the event one of our tall defenders is getting smashed we can always throw LRT down there (but stuff knows who we'd play in the ruck then) and throw either reg or ted forward (and we all know how well they've gone there as well).

BTW was it just my imagination or did the dons get three really quick goals at the tail end of the second half when LRT had gone into the ruck ?

[Captain]

LRT has been playing out of position. He is and should be played as a CHB.

[Melbournehammer]

LRT has been playing out of position. He is and should be played as a CHB.

but who do you drop to do this ?

it has to be one of reg or ted surely - and in my view both have demonstrated all season that they are at least as good as LRT. And if you play only one ruck the fill in really has to play ff - what other position do you actually get to rest ?

[Dosser]

Reg came to the club as a full forward.

[Scottee]

I thought this might be a better thread to post this in than to take the Swans/Bombers thread too far OT.
I think the perception of different players is interesting, and the impact it has on how we view their performance.


I was really just throwing it out there, I have no issue with a player having the odd quiet game here or there- but I also have no doubt that Jesse would be put under the microscope for the numbers that Lewis put up in that game.

Here's some averages on the season in the format of Lewis/Jesse
Games played: 12/8
Disposals: 7.1/7 - Contesed: DE%: 66.2/72.9
Marks: 2.6/1.4
Hitouts: 5.5/4.4 - Clearances: 0.7/1.3
Tackles: 2.8/2.5
Goals: 1/0.9

Two things in particular in the perception of the two that I think are interesting that you noted (and I'm not picking on you here, it appears to be a common perception on the board- I know you have a soft spot for him)
I take that as highlighting a difference between the two;
Goals: obviously the averages are close, and on the season Lewis has kicked 12 to Jesse's 7 (both have 4 behinds). Out of interest I took a quick squiz at the top end vs. bottom end of the ladder (as it stands now), both of them have played 6 games against teams in the top 10 in the comp- Lewis has kicked 4 goals in his 6, Jesse has kicked 6 goals in his 6. Lewis has played 6 games against teams in the bottom 7 of the comp for 8 goals, Jesse has played just the 2 against teams in the bottom 7 for 1 goal.
Ruck: 1 HO per game difference to Lewis, however I think those clearance numbers are very interesting- to me Jesse's clearance rate suggests he provides a decent contest at stoppages. Touching on those games against the top 10/bottom 7 as well, Lewis' HO average has a bit of variance- against the top 10 it is 4.2 but against the bottom 7 it is 6.8, Jesse's averages in those games have minimal variation at 4/5 (granted the 5 is from a small sample size).

So from there as a difference you have the intangibles that you're suggesting that LRT brings, but on paper (and from my perspective having watched the games) I really don't think there's a massive difference in them on the year; certainly not enough to forgive one for a quiet game because he's been solid all year, but deplore the other because he's been horrible all year.

I think the comparison could be slightly unfair to Jesse given the number of games he has had to play in the wet where he absolutely sucks (but is improving).

I like the idea of him having a run on the ball but I think his tank is lacking for a big role there. Could be a good shock tactic in some games though.

I am a bit disappointed that LRT has not gone back to FB with Reg because last year before he did his hammy he and Reg were a really tight duo and seemed to have a really good understanding. Doing that raises the spectre of what to do with Ted if we don't want three tall defenders.Maybe Ted could go to the midfield as well??? Dunno!

[Captain]

but who do you drop to do this ?

it has to be one of reg or ted surely - and in my view both have demonstrated all season that they are at least as good as LRT. And if you play only one ruck the fill in really has to play ff - what other position do you actually get to rest ?

Niether Reg or Ted. I would drop Kennelly and have Johnson play his role.

[Mr Magoo]

I agree with Captain, Ive held back on Kennelly but if anyone should be making way on form at the moment its him. He looks slow and out of step with the speed of the game at the moment. Melcho doesnt look much better. One of these two needs to be rested.

[Big Al]

Memo to the idiot who started this thread. Next time get a clue before you write someone off. You know nothing. Good looking though but you still know nothing.

[aardvark]

Memo to the idiot who started this thread. Next time get a clue before you write someone off. You know nothing. Good looking though but you still know nothing.

Ah Al...a week is a long time in footy. Lets just see how well he does against the Cats next week.

[Cheer_Cheer]

I was impressed by his game today.. If he hadn't of missed those 2 shots we would be talking him up big time.. Lets hope he can start stringing a few good games together and we can all forget about this thread and any comments we may have made in haste..