Trade Whispers / Rumours and Confirmations

[stellation]

When you read your posts of manlove for jesse, an independent observer would think jesse is a world beater and an elite player in the league. Instead, he's really had just one good season and may or may not kick on from here. Good luck to him, but it is far from a certainty that he will thrive at the pies.

So he's basically in the Sam Reid category?

[Primmy]

So he's basically in the Sam Reid category?

Oh Stella you stirrer you. Sam is talented and still growing into those shoulders, dear Jesse manifests man/woman love because of who he is. No matter how mad at him we got, mostly he was forgiven because of the quality of being he is.

We hope c'wood get him too. He had to try somewhere as there is just too much baggage attached here. Late developer with potential. If he gets going like Joey, Teddy, etal have done here then c'wood can crow all they like, just as we have done before. Cannot begrudge him (or them) that. At least he is showing some fight.

Will never boo him, thats for sure,

[Ludwig]

There was an article around a week ago about Lamb being close to signing, but haven't heard any confirmation. I wonder if a potential trade is holding up an announcement.

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I wouldn't classify the Saints offer for Bruce as screwing them, it's quite reasonable for a fringe defender who is out of contract.

Agree with you on this. I meant to say: in the opinion of the Giants, which seems to be the case based on the article.

[liz]

Yeah, hard to see how the Giants can consider Bruce worth a pick in the early to mid 20s when they consider a fair trade value for Mumford to be late 30s. Age difference is irrelevant when one is a proven high quality AFL player and the other still has question marks over whether he'll ever be more than fringe.

[Ludwig]

Yeah, hard to see how the Giants can consider Bruce worth a pick in the early to mid 20s when they consider a fair trade value for Mumford to be late 30s. Age difference is irrelevant when one is a proven high quality AFL player and the other still has question marks over whether he'll ever be more than fringe.

The Giants seem to have become a bit rattled by losing Buddy and are trying out a harder line strategy. They will be facing a continuous stream of high draft picks wanting, but not getting, permanent senior spots and have to find a way of coping with that in the years to come. It is probably an overreaction with Josh Bruce, but then again, with 4 picks in the top 22, what use is pick 41.

Having the first pick in the PSD is a very heavy weapon. Pretty much can be used to beat a trading partner into early submission. And it can be used over and over again. They've got Mummy for a low pick and still have their top PSD position.

[liz]

The Giants seem to have become a bit rattled by losing Buddy and are trying out a harder line strategy. They will be facing a continuous stream of high draft picks wanting, but not getting, permanent senior spots and have to find a way of coping with that in the years to come. It is probably an overreaction with Josh Bruce, but then again, with 4 picks in the top 22, what use is pick 41.

Having the first pick in the PSD is a very heavy weapon. Pretty much can be used to beat a trading partner into early submission. And it can be used over and over again. They've got Mummy for a low pick and still have their top PSD position.

They also need to start trimming their list and are faced with players out of contract wanting more opportunities, if they think they're good enough. The Saints also have an early PSD pick and if they want Bruce, and he wants to join, he'll probably get there. If they want to keep Bruce, and he is prepared to sign a contract but they're just dangling him out as trade bait, fair enough. Hold out for something better than he's worth, or hang onto him.

[Cardinal]

This is an interesting article about StK trading this year:

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/st-kilda-is-set-to-land-brisbane-lions-ruckman-billy-longer/story-fnfll94y-1226743039128

When you are rebuilding, you can play hard and nobody will reproach you.

1. They traded Ben McEvoy for pick 18 and Shane Savage, a pretty decent player just outside the Hawks 22.
2. Looks like they will land Billy Longer, taken at pick 8 a couple of years back, for perhaps pick 25.
3. They will get Luke Delaney for pick 77, meaning for zilch.
4. They are trying to screw the Giants out of Josh Bruce by offering pick 41, otherwise they can take him the PSD for nothing (sound familiar). I imagine that the Giants could redraft him in the PSD by undercutting the Saints, which would be interesting case of playing hardball. Maybe we should hand GWS back their pick 39 for Bruce. The Giants really want Fisher, not picks.
5. The Saints, along with NM manipulated the AFL, and effectively the other 16 clubs, out of a compo draft pick by not doing a bilateral trade for Dal Santo, which is why NM are giving Delaney to the Saints for 'free'. A clear case of tag-team rorting.

Now that the Lions are badly wounded, the Crows, Eagles, Saints and Vultures are cricling for the kill. No Swans or Hawks. It's not nice table manners for top of the food chain clubs to indulge in such behaviour.

And with our senior slot and salary cap squeeze all too evident, our soft underbelly has been exposed and the Hyenas are chomping at our Mummeries. (Why didn't GWS call themselves the Hinterland Hyenas? Sounds almost as good as the Green Bay Packers).

We will walk away from this off season a big winner, but not without a few losses.

So it goes.

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Just got the news that Collingwood gave us pick 44 for Jesse White, as had been projected. Wouldn't it be ironic if we used that pick for Joel Tippett. He was offered up for trade for one brother, got knocked back, but then got traded for the other brother.

Jesse White for the 2 Tippetts. I'd like to see that!

Has Chris Pelchen written all over it. He did set up the Hawk's list after all.

[ugg]

As far as I can make out

So the WC/Pies/Swans deal appears to be:

Magpies gain: 6, White
Magpies lose: 11, 31, 49

Eagles gain: 11, 31, 49
Eagles lose: 6, 44

Swans gain: 44
Swans lose: White

Good deal for Collingwood in trading 31 and 49 to move up 5 places in the draft AND pick up Jesse. Maybe even try and package up pick 6 in the Shaw Adams deal and somehow end up with pick 2

[lwjoyner]

as I said earlier WHY HELP the pies and McGuire to improve a position in the draft. If they cannot do better than that let Jesse go into the PSD. I am also amazed that the Eagles would agree to help pies.

[liz]

as I said earlier WHY HELP the pies and McGuire to improve a position in the draft. If they cannot do better than that let Jesse go into the PSD. I am also amazed that the Eagles would agree to help pies.

We're not helping the Pies. We're just accepting whatever pick they'll give.

And the deal makes sense for the Eagles because they want Yeo from Brisbane and need something to trade for him. The Pies' second round pick is what they need, and they must not think that downgrading their top 10 pick will make much difference to the player they get.

[lwjoyner]

they still have 31 after their 2 first rnders 10 & 11, I still see it as aiding them.

[Ludwig]

And the deal makes sense for the Eagles because they want Yeo from Brisbane and need something to trade for him. The Pies' second round pick is what they need, and they must not think that downgrading their top 10 pick will make much difference to the player they get.

You're right. It's like getting Yeo for free. I think they have targeted West Australian Dominic Sheed. I imagine they have a gentleman's agreement with the Pies that they won't take him at pick 6 or 10; Brisbane won't take another go home factor player at pick 7, NM are committed to McDonald at pick 8, so there's only Melbourne at pick 9 to worry about, and they too are more likely to play it safe with a Victorian.

[Auntie.Gerald]

i dont see pick numbers and "equivalent" players as the only factors in fair trades

i see the balance of the complete squad as a massive factor in deciding fairness of trades - ie who you want on the list now and in the next couple of years and who do you need to let go of to fit into the sal cap

[Ludwig]

They also need to start trimming their list and are faced with players out of contract wanting more opportunities, if they think they're good enough. The Saints also have an early PSD pick and if they want Bruce, and he wants to join, he'll probably get there. If they want to keep Bruce, and he is prepared to sign a contract but they're just dangling him out as trade bait, fair enough. Hold out for something better than he's worth, or hang onto him.

The Giants' situation with Josh Bruce is similar to ours with Mummy and White, where we had to accept a low pick because they could be lost anyway in the PSD. The Giants are in an even more precarious situation in that they were offered a pick by the Saints that is clearly worth nothing to them. It's a bit mischievous by the Saints, I think. Although disappointed with getting unders, I can at least see that we can get some value out of our picks 39 and 44.

I was also thinking about your point on the Giants needing to trim their list. It's been known that Kristian Jaksch wants to leave, and they have several other tall KPPs that will be vying for few spots in the 22. I would have thought that we could strike a deal with Mummy and Everiitt on the table and us needing a key defender in the near future. I don't know if we weren't interested or we just have a poor relationship with them, as has been reported in the papers.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Yeah, hard to see how the Giants can consider Bruce worth a pick in the early to mid 20s when they consider a fair trade value for Mumford to be late 30s. Age difference is irrelevant when one is a proven high quality AFL player and the other still has question marks over whether he'll ever be more than fringe.

Cant decide whether its old testosterone laden style zero-sum, win-lose negotiation. Or whether there's an element of almost fan level perspective driven wishful thinking. Pay peanuts for someone else's star, then offload your own fringe dwellers and has beans for gilt edged draft picks. Either way it seems strange in this "professionalism."

Having the first pick in the PSD is a very heavy weapon. Pretty much can be used to beat a trading partner into early submission. And it can be used over and over again. They've got Mummy for a low pick and still have their top PSD position.

We used the technique to acquire Lockett then Roos, although the Saints received a lot more than the third round draft pick the giants will give us.