List changes and trade bait

[0918330512]

Righto M80, trade out a bunch of experienced, proven players, who, to date have demonstrated that they want to be at the Swans & part of the relatively loyal culture we have painstakingly developed ... bring in inexperienced potential - lots of them with all the picks you've got from shoving out our senior players - & because we might win fewer games & finish 5th-8th, because of the loss of top end experience you traded out, the club slides in 2015/16, so when our new draftees decide to go home for better finals opportunities with teams finishing 1-4, the snowballing exodus of the young recruits escalates (this is compounded by the fact that the young kids have now seen that Sydney are happy to ruthlessly release players for draft picks, no matter how good they are or how much service they have given). Oh, & Buddy's presence is no longer able to maintain membership numbers, as the Sydney market loves a winner & the recruiting guru M80 has initiated the ladder slide of a very young, unproven list. This is just my opinion, but please don't ever apply for a recruiting position at the Swans ... with these ideas, would love to see you on the recruiting staff of the Maggies or Hawks tho!

[Matt80]

You would normally do a list clear out after a poor season Matt, not after one of the most successful seasons in the clubs history. We are contenders, why would we want a no 1 pick who may be a star and may help us win a flag in 5 years, in exchange for an established star who will be trying his guys out to win one next year? Make hay while the sun shines, your suggestion is the most ridiculous thing you've posted on here, and that's saying something.

The Swans are a long way of a flag. Two goals is different to ten goals. If it was two goals, I would say we were close and Brian Lake might just help us (Hawks).

We can't get those one or two players to get us there now and we are ten goals away. Added to that Port and The Suns are just about ready to overtake us and North are using trade week to give themselves a big shot. North have added Wait, Higgis and possibly Cooney. I think Freemantle are cooked and possibly even the Hawks unless Lake, Gibson, Hodge, Mitchell and Burgoin (all over 30) can maintain elite standards.

I'm proposing a mini-list adjustment to help us take advantage of the best talent coming into the club for 20 years. These guys need senior opportunities and why not have a couple more young guns around them to build a Dynasty.

Added to that we have to lower our salary cap and we can't get any experienced players.

2015-2016 is Ports and the Suns time. Let's make our time 2017-2018 when we can start getting extra players in and the youth will be ready to roll. Kennedy, Jack, Franklin, Sam Reid, Parker, Rampe, Rohan, Jetta, Cunningham, Lloyd and Smith will still be playing in 2017 and 2018 with outstanding youth around them. Maybe players such as Towers, B.Jack, Jones, Naismith, Toby N, Alex Johnson, X Richards, Tom Mitchell and George Hewitt will be significantly developed and improved to be good regular AFL footballers as well.

Let's get the youth in and prepare for 2017-2018. We are ten goals off a flag with no capacity to top up the list. That is a lot of ground to make up particularly if Port get Ryder.

[Melbourne_Blood]

We are adding Heeney, who Melbourne bid pick 2 on. We have the best forward in the comp, we have one of the best midfields in the comp, ( one who admittedly played their worst game of the year in the GF) we have GF and premiership experience, and we should and will be burning to make amends for our failure this year. How you can say we aren't a flag chance next year is ridiculous. We would have made minimal changes this year anyway IMO, so the trade ban is not catastrophic for us for this trade period I believe. I also think it will get thrown out or amended somehow, it needs to be challenged in court its farcical.

[Matt80]

Righto M80, trade out a bunch of experienced, proven players, who, to date have demonstrated that they want to be at the Swans & part of the relatively loyal culture we have painstakingly developed ... bring in inexperienced potential - lots of them with all the picks you've got from shoving out our senior players - & because we might win fewer games & finish 5th-8th, because of the loss of top end experience you traded out, the club slides in 2015/16, so when our new draftees decide to go home for better finals opportunities with teams finishing 1-4, the snowballing exodus of the young recruits escalates (this is compounded by the fact that the young kids have now seen that Sydney are happy to ruthlessly release players for draft picks, no matter how good they are or how much service they have given). Oh, & Buddy's presence is no longer able to maintain membership numbers, as the Sydney market loves a winner & the recruiting guru M80 has initiated the ladder slide of a very young, unproven list. This is just my opinion, but please don't ever apply for a recruiting position at the Swans ... with these ideas, would love to see you on the recruiting staff of the Maggies or Hawks tho!

I've really only proposed to trade Hanners and Bird.

Tom Mitchell should secure Birds role anyway in 2015, so that only leaves Hanners which will be a loss.

I just feel that if you put midfield guns like Petracca and Heeney together, you have a chance of being a strong team for the next 12 years. Heeney is the 2nd best player in the draft and Petracca is likely the best player in the draft. Then next year the Swans will get two of the top five midfielders in the 2015 draft.

I'm not applying for a list management position at the Swans. I only want to build the next great Swans team. I want a Dynasty and the work starts now while we have Heeney, Mills and Dunkley to come in.

[Ludwig]

We are not a long way off winning a flag Matt. When you make the GF, you must have a pretty good team. No need to go over the GF loss, but we shouldn't be making strategic decision based on this one game.

One thing that stands out about this post season trading period is how devalued the draft has become. It hardly matters who you pick up in the draft, because in a few years time they can just pick up and leave for a better deal.

Around 10 odd years ago when Hawthorn slid down the table they went for a rebuild and did incredibly well in their draft picks, getting players like Hodge, Mitchell, Roughhead, Franklin and Lewis. After that their draft pick record is pretty ordinary given the long expanse of time. But they have been fantastic in filling holes in their list with great trades.

We are fortunate that due to the academy we have some good young talent coming into the club at a critical time when our football department will be under the gun due to the loss of the COLA. The most important thing to do is to keep the team together and lose as few players as possible. One of the ways to do that is to show the players your intent on winning a premiership now and not willing to join the group of middle tier clubs looking to rebuild their list.

[goswannies]

I've really only proposed to trade Hanners and Bird.

Tom Mitchell should secure Birds role anyway in 2015, so that only leaves Hanners which will be a loss.

I just feel that if you put midfield guns like Petracca and Heeney together, you have a chance of being a strong team for the next 12 years. Heeney is the 2nd best player in the draft and Petracca is likely the best player in the draft. Then next year the Swans will get two of the top five midfielders in the 2015 draft.

I'm not applying for a list management position at the Swans. I only want to build the next great Swans team. I want a Dynasty and the work starts now while we have Heeney, Mills and Dunkley to come in.

You're bringing in 4 "gun midfielders" ... where are you going to fit Jack, Kennedy, Mitchell, maybe McGlynn given he was handy there this year? You're stockpiling mids like GW$ accumulated power forwards. Then in 2 years time I suspect you'll flood RWO with 500GB's worth of posts saying [insert any combination of: Petracca, Heeney, Jack, Kennedy, Mitchell (again), McGlynn, Mills, Dunkley] need to be traded as they are unhappy they aren't getting games time and are sick of getting 90 disposals a game in the NEAFL.

The Swans are a long way of a flag. Two goals is different to ten goals.

Your "logic" is flawed. Highly flawed. We were a 10 goals worse side on the day. A week before we were one straight Port kick away from playing the Power in a Grand Final (Hawks 15.7.97 def Port 13.16.94). We beat Port twice during the season. Using your "logic", we were a better side than Port (based on consecutive home and away victories over them this year) so should have won a Grand Final had we faced the Power. So many things contributed to a 10 goal loss to the Hawks. But that doesn't mean we're a 10 goal worse side. The fact that we beat them by 19 points early in the season and they beat us by 10 later in the year would suggest that a 10 goal drubbing might be an anomaly. To suggest a hefty turnover of the list and draft strategy based on one (admittedly embarrassing) result is simply foolish. Anything can happen on game day - take our 110 point win over the Cats (did they overreact by dumping their entire senior team because they were clearly an 18 goal worse side than a team that was 1:3 after round 4?).

[Matt80]

You're bringing in 4 "gun midfielders" ... where are you going to fit Jack, Kennedy, Mitchell, maybe McGlynn given he was handy there this year? You're stockpiling mids like GW$ accumulated power forwards. Then in 2 years time I suspect you'll flood RWO with 500GB's worth of posts saying [insert any combination of: Petracca, Heeney, Jack, Kennedy, Mitchell (again), McGlynn, Mills, Dunkley] need to be traded as they are unhappy they aren't getting games time and are sick of getting 90 disposals a game in the NEAFL.



Your "logic" is flawed. Highly flawed. We were a 10 goals worse side on the day. A week before we were one straight Port kick away from playing the Power in a Grand Final (Hawks 15.7.97 def Port 13.16.94). We beat Port twice during the season. Using your "logic", we were a better side than Port (based on consecutive home and away victories over them this year) so should have won a Grand Final had we faced the Power. So many things contributed to a 10 goal loss to the Hawks. But that doesn't mean we're a 10 goal worse side. The fact that we beat them by 19 points early in the season and they beat us by 10 later in the year would suggest that a 10 goal drubbing might be an anomaly. To suggest a hefty turnover of the list and draft strategy based on one (admittedly embarrassing) result is simply foolish. Anything can happen on game day - take our 110 point win over the Cats (did they overreact by dumping their entire senior team because they were clearly an 18 goal worse side than a team that was 1:3 after round 4?).

That 18 point win against the Hawks was against a Hawks without Mitchell, Lake, Hodge and Gibson with a busted breast. I think there may have been some other good Hawks players out. It was almost one of the most embarrassing defeats if it was not for Buddy and Tipp. They fixed us up twice at full strength.

The great thing about Petracca is that he is a very good half forward who can be rotated through midfield. Heeney had shown his versatility of half forward and half back. I'm not sure about the versatility of Mills and Dunkley.

I see Kieran Jack (small forward), McVeigh (half back), Kennedy (medium forward) and Parker (medium forward) being able to rotate through the midfield with those young guns. Jones can rotate through the midfield and the back line as well.

Mitchell will need to spend more time in the midfield because he is not as versatile as the other.

I also think Lloyd could develop as a small rotating defender because of his excellent kicking skills.

Let's build the next Dynasty. St Kilda were closer to a flag in 2009 than we are. With both teams at full strength the Hawks are way superior and I think Port and the Gold Coast are coming. I don't think GWS will ever win a flag with Ryan Griffin in the team. The guy obviously can't take feedback and will soften and make the rest of the GWS list too sensitive to win against the brutal teams.

[Ludwig]

In the past 12 seasons the Swans have only had a losing record in one (2009). In AFL terms, that's almost a dynasty. In the past 3 years the Swans have a 54-20-1 record, 2 GF appearances and 1 premiership. I wouldn't be tinkering too much with that sort of record.

[Go Swannies]

The Swans are a long way of a flag. Two goals is different to ten goals. If it was two goals, I would say we were close and Brian Lake might just help us (Hawks).

We can't get those one or two players to get us there now and we are ten goals away. Added to that Port and The Suns are just about ready to overtake us and North are using trade week to give themselves a big shot. North have added Wait, Higgis and possibly Cooney. I think Freemantle are cooked and possibly even the Hawks unless Lake, Gibson, Hodge, Mitchell and Burgoin (all over 30) can maintain elite standards.

I'm proposing a mini-list adjustment to help us take advantage of the best talent coming into the club for 20 years. These guys need senior opportunities and why not have a couple more young guns around them to build a Dynasty.

Added to that we have to lower our salary cap and we can't get any experienced players.

2015-2016 is Ports and the Suns time. Let's make our time 2017-2018 when we can start getting extra players in and the youth will be ready to roll. Kennedy, Jack, Franklin, Sam Reid, Parker, Rampe, Rohan, Jetta, Cunningham, Lloyd and Smith will still be playing in 2017 and 2018 with outstanding youth around them. Maybe players such as Towers, B.Jack, Jones, Naismith, Toby N, Alex Johnson, X Richards, Tom Mitchell and George Hewitt will be significantly developed and improved to be good regular AFL footballers as well.

Let's get the youth in and prepare for 2017-2018. We are ten goals off a flag with no capacity to top up the list. That is a lot of ground to make up particularly if Port get Ryder.

After the Swans failed to make the finals this year and never looked liked getting to the Grand Final everything you say makes perfect sense. If we'd even looked competitive against the Suns and Port - let alone the Freo and North super teams - I'd say let's give it a shot next year. But five years from now when Buddy's matured is the best we can hope for.

I'm with you.

[Untamed Snark]

After the Swans failed to make the finals this year and never looked liked getting to the Grand Final everything you say makes perfect sense. If we'd even looked competitive against the Suns and Port - let alone the Freo and North super teams - I'd say let's give it a shot next year. But five years from now when Buddy's matured is the best we can hope for.

I'm with you.

Not sure if Buddy will ever make it in the seniors. We need to try get Jesse White back ASAP

[Go Swannies]

Not sure if Buddy will ever make it in the seniors. We need to try get Jesse White back ASAP

And risk the wrath of Eddie? I don't think so. (But you may have just uncovered why he hates us.)

[liz]

The great thing about Petracca is that he is a very good half forward who can be rotated through midfield. Heeney had shown his versatility of half forward and half back. I'm not sure about the versatility of Mills and Dunkley.

How often have you watched any of Petracca, Heeney, Mills and Dunkley play? Especially Petracca, who you have anointed the Next Big Thing?

[Nico]

And risk the wrath of Eddie? I don't think so. (But you may have just uncovered why he hates us.)

White is another one of Collingwood's brilliant recruiting coups. Any chance Eddie has the last say on who they recruit. He must be really pissed that he has to hang on to this dud until his contract is up.

[Ludwig]

How often have you watched any of Petracca, Heeney, Mills and Dunkley play? Especially Petracca, who you have anointed the Next Big Thing?

I agree with Matt. Petracker is fantastic. I wear it whenever I go I out. If I fall down drunk somewhere, I can easily be found.

[mcs]

I agree with Matt. Petracker is fantastic. I wear it whenever I go I out. If I fall down drunk somewhere, I can easily be found.

Ahhh very good Ludwig