2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

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  • bloodspirit
    Clubman
    • Apr 2015
    • 4448

    Originally posted by Auntie.Gerald
    So if u could have your cake and eat it too, what do u want for 2020 Re player retention and recruitment ?

    How can we increase the capability of our squad for 2020 and beyond ?
    Great question!

    And I agree with your subsequent analysis which, with all due respect to Ludwig, looks more on the money than Ludwig's does e.g. Thurlow is contracted, Reynolds is contracted (Reynolds Re-signs - sydneyswans.com.au), Knoll appears to be contracted, even if not announced by the club, I reckon Rose has to go.

    Menzel is a tricky call. We obviously didn't count on him being injured so much. He also wasn't in the best form when he did play but he has value for his experience in a young side and his ability to lead the younger players and if he can regain his form and fitness might be worth retaining, subject to a point I will make shortly.

    Rose I think has to be delisted unless we can trade him cheaply. Has become a list clogger in my view. Sad to say.

    Fox may need to be cut also, depending on how ruthless we are going to be but I think some ruthlessness is called for. If we are going to keep McLean and Knoll, we need to cut more elsewhere because they were both over and above usual list size.

    Maibaum also in danger but we would certainly need to have some replacements lined up.

    I rate Melican higher than you it appears you do, AG, and would at this stage be pencilling him in the starting 22 ahead of, say, Bell. Also think we need that extra bit of height: Rampe and AA is not enough.

    The reason I think we have to consider cutting players like Rose, Menzel, Maibaum and even Pink and Amartey is that we need to clear space for incoming talent. Pink and Amartey have shown promise but have they shown enough to be worth persevering with ahead of a new draftee who could be anything? I tend to think that we don't keep McLean and Amartey - one of them should be cut. Probably Amartey but I'm happy to trust the list managers.

    I confess I have been somewhat influenced by swansfan51 on BF that perhaps it is not worth persevering with players who show the potential to be AFL level unless they show potential of being good at that AFL level. Players like Rose and Fox are good enough to play AFL but they are not likely to ever be better than serviceable at that high standard. Better to persevere with the projects who have higher ceilings even if it is unclear whether they will make it e.g. Tucker or even Bennell.

    It is because of the imperative to clear some space on the list that I am uncertain about Menzel. Menzel, at his best, is a good player at AFL level. Plus, as I mentioned already, his experience and willing to pass on his skills is evidently valued by the younger forwards. Anyway, I think I am waffling now.

    As to wishlist:

    1. I'd be excited to get Daniher. Despite the risk is a great player when he's fit and firing and a good fit with our club.

    2. I'd love to get Alex Keath from the Crows. In that case it may be bye bye Maibaum (or Pink or Amartey).

    3. And the last piece of the puzzle would be Angus Brayshaw. He's worth pick 4 and more despite having a down year.

    To pay for all this we will have to trade out Jones and pick 4 and some more stuff. But not impossible.
    All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument than others. -Douglas Adams, author (11 Mar 1952-2001)

    Comment

    • bloodspirit
      Clubman
      • Apr 2015
      • 4448

      Thinking some more about Tucker there are a couple of things going against him:

      1. Apart from his ACL injury, which we had budgeted for, he sustained an additional injury this year. I'm not sure what it was - does anybody know?

      2. His atttributes seem to be similar to those of Reynolds and McInerney. Can we afford to keep all three? Clearly we are more invested in the other two at this stage.
      All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument than others. -Douglas Adams, author (11 Mar 1952-2001)

      Comment

      • bloodspirit
        Clubman
        • Apr 2015
        • 4448

        FWIW, I hope we keep Cameron too. Only question is whether he will be offered more opportunity elsewhere.
        All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument than others. -Douglas Adams, author (11 Mar 1952-2001)

        Comment

        • bloodspirit
          Clubman
          • Apr 2015
          • 4448

          Another topic I'd like to raise is - coaching staff. What changes do we see/would we like to see happening?

          Obviously Macca is incoming. We have a relatively small sized coaching staff compared to other clubs so we don't have to get rid of anyone. I wonder if one of Laidler or Perris might be moved on, perhaps Laidler? I was slightly surprised when Laidler was appointed as a coach and have wondered whether it was part of a settlement that led to his early retirement (I think he still had a year on his contract to run?). Since his appointment I haven't heard anything much about him one way or the other. Do any more regular ressies watchers (ugg, barracuda, liz etc.) have any thoughts about him?

          Could there be any other changes? Horse is clearly locked in. Blakey is going nowhere. I suspect Kirk isn't going anywhere either. What about Cox, Stevie J and Tadhg? If there's any movements on this front I reckon we'll hear about it soon. I'm not sure but I suspect their original contracts wouldn't be more than 2 years and that means in the case of Cox and Stevie J, they may be up for renewal. Is there anyone we'd like to see drafted in? There are a few former senior coaches in the market. Would anyone consider Brenton Sanderson? Maybe our SA residents know more about him - 707, goswannies?? Or even Don Pyke? (Better him than Lyon, Scott or Bolton I reckon.)

          Is Charlie Gardiner working out well as head of football? Wouldn't have a clue how we're supposed to know. We haven't even ever been able to figure out what the role involves. The closest we've come is doing injury reports and Ludwig's suggestion that the Head of Football picks the travelling emergencies.
          All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated, and well supported in logic and argument than others. -Douglas Adams, author (11 Mar 1952-2001)

          Comment

          • Ludwig
            Veterans List
            • Apr 2007
            • 9359

            Originally posted by bloodspirit
            Thinking some more about Tucker there are a couple of things going against him:

            1. Apart from his ACL injury, which we had budgeted for, he sustained an additional injury this year. I'm not sure what it was - does anybody know?

            2. His atttributes seem to be similar to those of Reynolds and McInerney. Can we afford to keep all three? Clearly we are more invested in the other two at this stage.
            As per usual, there has been very little information on the injuries of the lesser known players. Reynolds (who did get another year on his contract) has been out for weeks without being on our injury list and no updates coming from Charlie Gardiner (not wanting to upstage the boss's record from previous seasons).

            I think Tucker had a serious hamstring issue which required surgery, suggesting a hamstring tendon as I believe this injury was early in the season and he hasn't been able to get fit in 5 months. On the positive side, he was able to join in the club song on Saturday, not requiring either a wheelchair or crutches.

            Drilling down into the team depth, it's a big advantage for a club to be able to draft and develop players at a good rate, something we've been doing well for a good half dozen years. We are getting to the point now where we should see a real build-up in list depth in the next few years, with very few regular players dropping out due to retirement. We might find ourselves in mini-GWS situation, where there is so much depth of talent that players can be traded out for more draft picks, thus continuing the draft/development process, leading to consistently good outcomes year after year.

            With young untested players, the decision to keep or drop should be based on a case by case basis without consideration for depth in projected position. We should just try to build the strongest list possible and let things naturally evolve.

            Also, I don't think any of Thurlow, Clarke, Menzel or Knoll have contracts beyond this year, although that doesn't preclude a contract extension that hasn't been made public (which wouldn't be out of character for the Swans.)

            Comment

            • Steve
              Regular in the Side
              • Jan 2003
              • 676

              I'd keep Menzel - he's only 27 and could be valuable in a good team if we can step it up over the next couple of years. He'd be on modest money and I can't imagine we recruited him expecting he'd kick 50 goals this year and we would be a premiership threat. The way we play, a guy who can kick 2 or 3 (or more) in big games which are low scoring can be the difference, eg. Nick Davis and Mitch Morton.

              I think we're in a pretty good position in terms of the trade period - I'm sure we've got a couple of decent targets in mind, but otherwise can lurk in the background ready to pounce on any handy players if they are at risk of getting squeezed out (eg. Langdon last year). Or be there to help out if anyone is desperate to offload a reasonable role player to free up money to make other offer (even St Kilda seem to need to offload players to be able to offer Hill, Jones etc what they are).

              If none of that happens, we could still expect to build next year via natural development of existing players, potentially make the finals and save even more room in the cap and then go really hard this time next year.

              We do still desperately need more inside midfield options - there has to be one or two from other top teams not getting a game that we could offer an opportunity.
              Last edited by Steve; 29 August 2019, 06:49 PM.

              Comment

              • Markwebbos
                Veterans List
                • Jul 2016
                • 7186

                Originally posted by bloodspirit
                Another topic I'd like to raise is - coaching staff. What changes do we see/would we like to see happening?

                Obviously Macca is incoming. We have a relatively small sized coaching staff compared to other clubs so we don't have to get rid of anyone. I wonder if one of Laidler or Perris might be moved on, perhaps Laidler? I was slightly surprised when Laidler was appointed as a coach and have wondered whether it was part of a settlement that led to his early retirement (I think he still had a year on his contract to run?). Since his appointment I haven't heard anything much about him one way or the other. Do any more regular ressies watchers (ugg, barracuda, liz etc.) have any thoughts about him?

                Could there be any other changes? Horse is clearly locked in. Blakey is going nowhere. I suspect Kirk isn't going anywhere either. What about Cox, Stevie J and Tadhg? If there's any movements on this front I reckon we'll hear about it soon. I'm not sure but I suspect their original contracts wouldn't be more than 2 years and that means in the case of Cox and Stevie J, they may be up for renewal. Is there anyone we'd like to see drafted in? There are a few former senior coaches in the market. Would anyone consider Brenton Sanderson? Maybe our SA residents know more about him - 707, goswannies?? Or even Don Pyke? (Better him than Lyon, Scott or Bolton I reckon.)

                Is Charlie Gardiner working out well as head of football? Wouldn't have a clue how we're supposed to know. We haven't even ever been able to figure out what the role involves. The closest we've come is doing injury reports and Ludwig's suggestion that the Head of Football picks the travelling emergencies.
                I reckon our Fwds and our backs have performed really well given the inexperience at both ends and mountain of inside 50s we’ve conceded. Our fwd line had one of the highest score per inside 50 ratios in the comp.

                We’ve been getting smashed in the middle, ruck, clearances etc and we aren’t able to lock the ball inside our 50 and play the territory game. Admittedly with severe personnel problems.

                I believe clubs have to tell assistants by the start of August if their contracts aren’t being renewed so I don’t expect much to change other than a reshuffle to beef up our ruck/mids/stoppage coaching.

                Every time Horse bemoaned our being annihilated in clearances, it felt like it was directed at his assistants.

                Comment

                • Auntie.Gerald
                  Veterans List
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 6474

                  Bloodspirit

                  For me I liken McCartin to a pair of tens vs Melican a pair of twos

                  You can still win a hand with a pair of twos but holding a pair tens feels much more comfortable

                  Ie McCartin can play 50/50 upfront and backline

                  Melican only as a back

                  I’m loving the smaller backline with injections of Reid and or McCartin when needed only

                  With Blakey, Reid and buddy upfront that is plenty of height

                  With those 3 plus Daniher the team is too tall to have Melican plus MCCartin. There wouldn’t be enough run against most top teams

                  So the pair of 10s wins

                  Ps I like Melican though
                  Last edited by Auntie.Gerald; 29 August 2019, 07:29 PM.
                  "be tough, only when it gets tough"

                  Comment

                  • AB Swannie
                    Senior Player
                    • Mar 2017
                    • 1579

                    I found this interesting. It goes to show how overrated draft picks can be.

                    The AA team in order of their draft position:

                    Pre-draft J Cameron
                    4 Bontempeli
                    5 Pendlebury
                    6 Macrae
                    10 Dangerfield
                    13 Cripps, Hurn
                    18 Grundy
                    20 Fyfe
                    24 Kelly
                    26 Darling
                    30 Yeo
                    34 Gawn
                    40 Stewart
                    41 Hawkins (F/S)
                    42 Houli
                    53 Walters
                    58 Neale
                    61 Andrews
                    Rookies McGovern, C Cameron
                    Pre-season Grimes

                    Comment

                    • Auntie.Gerald
                      Veterans List
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 6474

                      Cool overview and insight AB

                      A little bit of clarity too

                      Ps

                      Rowbottom for me is tracking every bit as good as Lachie Neale in his first season
                      "be tough, only when it gets tough"

                      Comment

                      • Markwebbos
                        Veterans List
                        • Jul 2016
                        • 7186

                        Originally posted by Auntie.Gerald
                        Cool overview and insight AB

                        A little bit of clarity too

                        Ps

                        Rowbottom for me is tracking every bit as good as Lachie Neale in his first season
                        Im pretty excited about NOBT too

                        Comment

                        • sprite
                          Regular in the Side
                          • Jan 2003
                          • 813

                          Originally posted by Markwebbos
                          I reckon our Fwds and our backs have performed really well given the inexperience at both ends and mountain of inside 50s we’ve conceded. Our fwd line had one of the highest score per inside 50 ratios in the comp.

                          We’ve been getting smashed in the middle, ruck, clearances etc and we aren’t able to lock the ball inside our 50 and play the territory game. Admittedly with severe personnel problems.

                          I believe clubs have to tell assistants by the start of August if their contracts aren’t being renewed so I don’t expect much to change other than a reshuffle to beef up our ruck/mids/stoppage coaching.

                          Every time Horse bemoaned our being annihilated in clearances, it felt like it was directed at his assistants.
                          I have said it previously, Kirk is the weak link. Under his guidance our mids have gone backwards. Hope that Macca takes on this role.

                          Captain Kumbaya could take on the role of yoga trainer and mat cleaner.
                          sprite

                          Comment

                          • waswan
                            Senior Player
                            • Oct 2015
                            • 2047

                            Clarke is a keeper, bigger body mid who needs to clean up disposal
                            More than held his own as a defensive mid, id say he is contracted too as i doubt he left for one year.
                            Could end up being one of the inside mids we are after

                            NEAFL is second rate but no one else grabbed it 47times playing there

                            Comment

                            • Blood Fever
                              Veterans List
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 4040

                              Originally posted by sprite
                              I have said it previously, Kirk is the weak link. Under his guidance our mids have gone backwards. Hope that Macca takes on this role.

                              Captain Kumbaya could take on the role of yoga trainer and mat cleaner.
                              Disrespectful of a Swans legend

                              Comment

                              • longmile
                                Crumber
                                • Apr 2011
                                • 3362

                                Originally posted by Blood Fever
                                Disrespectful of a Swans legend
                                True though

                                Comment

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