2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Melbourne_Blood]

Thanks waswan

I think he’s joking, surely.


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[Ludwig]

3 yrs with a trigger for a further 2

Trigger Clause? My oh my!



What is it? If Hickey's heart is still beating after 3 years, he gets another 2. I have a vague recollection of a Tippett trigger clause that worked out well.

[Ralph Dawg]

I'm not that upset about Hickey. Not even really that upset about Aliir leaving. But I'm fuming about the deal. Only 2 ways to look at it:

1) We gave him up for a future pick in late 30s / early 40s, even though he's contracted.
Or
2) Direct swap for Hickey, a journeyman ruck who is nearly 30.

Either way we look like absolute chumps.

We better get a good one with 3.

[Melbourne_Blood]

2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

I'm not that upset about Hickey. Not even really that upset about Aliir leaving. But I'm fuming about the deal. Only 2 ways to look at it:

1) We gave him up for a future pick in late 30s / early 40s, even though he's contracted.
Or
2) Direct swap for Hickey, a journeyman ruck who is nearly 30.

Either way we look like absolute chumps.

We better get a good one with 3.

Yeah, pretty much my thoughts exactly. Hickey yeah okay we needed a ruck and he will be a slight improvement on Sinkers.

AA, yeah I’m okay if he goes for a good deal. Not for this deal though.

I mentioned before but why couldn’t we hold out until late on deadline day, make Port sweat and see how badly they want him? They approached, he’s under contract.

Just seems like really bad negotiating on our behalf. Result might’ve been the same but makes us look soft at the trade table.

[MattW]

I'm not that upset about Hickey. Not even really that upset about Aliir leaving. But I'm fuming about the deal. Only 2 ways to look at it:

1) We gave him up for a future pick in late 30s / early 40s, even though he's contracted.
Or
2) Direct swap for Hickey, a journeyman ruck who is nearly 30.

Either way we look like absolute chumps.

We better get a good one with 3.

A benefit of it is points this year to prevent a debt next year.

[The Big Cat]

OK pessimists, what were the alternatives?

We needed a ruckman of some sort. No point grabbing state league blokes. We tried that with the best two available. Knoll was no good and McLean is too small. There are no unearthed guns out there or established ruckman in the AFL for what we’ve got to offer. Forget Ladhams, he was never on the table.

Aliir was offered a long term, financially superior deal at port. Next year he is a free agent and can walk for nothing. We got a second round pick. Under free agency compensation we wouldn’t have done better. Who knows where we will finish next year. That compensation pick could also be in the 30s. When Aliir did something spectacular everyone noticed it, but these were not all that often. (Think Jesse White or Cheese Barlow). I reckon Aliir was a better player in 2016 before he hurt his knee. There’s also more to this than meets the eye in my opinion. He had that incident of ‘sleeping in’ and missing training then the strange one of being selected then needing to suddenly find for in the ressies.

This year’s draft has the potential to be one for a generation with two top 10 picks and another who could eventually comfortably fit into that category. Getting those three players is of greater importance than holding onto a debatable best 22 player for maybe one more year.

The reason we didn’t take port to the last minute is that we needed to have our draft points lined up without being left high and dry and no time to make alternate arrangements.

[Melbourne_Blood]

2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

OK pessimists, what were the alternatives?

We needed a ruckman of some sort. No point grabbing state league blokes. We tried that with the best two available. Knoll was no good and McLean is too small. There are no unearthed guns out there or established ruckman in the AFL for what we’ve got to offer. Forget Ladhams, he was never on the table.

Aliir was offered a long term, financially superior deal at port. Next year he is a free agent and can walk for nothing. We got a second round pick. Under free agency compensation we wouldn’t have done better. Who knows where we will finish next year. That compensation pick could be in the 30s. When Aliir did something spectacular everyone noticed it, but these were not all that often. (Think Jesse White or Cheese Barlow). I reckon Aliir was a better player in 2016 before he hurt his knee. There’s also more to this than meets the eye in my opinion. He had that incident of ‘sleeping in’ and missing training then the strange one of being selected then needing to suddenly find for in the ressies.

This year’s draft has the potential to be one for a generation with two top 10 picks and another who could eventually comfortably fit into that category. Getting those three players is of greater importance than holding onto a debatable best 22 player for maybe one more year.

It’s bemusing that some find it incredulous that anyone can question the club on anything.

Alternatives ?

Don’t trade a contracted player for a poor deal, and who knows, he has a very good year in 2021 and we re-sign him ?

Gauge interest outside of Port ?

Wait until deadline to put the pressure on the club approaching our contracted player ?

Trade our own future pick for Hickey ?

Talk of next year being a super draft. Half the draft pool in Victoria haven’t played a second of footy in 2020. We’re drafting at least 2 first rounders this year, after investing heavily in the draft the past 3-4 years, do we really need to be so concerned about our draft position next year ?


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[waswan]

It’s bemusing that some find it incredulous that anyone can question the club on anything.

Alternatives ?

Don’t trade a contracted player for a poor deal, and who knows, he has a very good year in 2021 and we re-sign him ?

Gauge interest outside of Port ?

Wait until deadline to put the pressure on the club approaching our contracted player ?

Trade our own future pick for Hickey ?

Talk of next year being a super draft. Half the draft pool in Victoria haven’t played a second of footy in 2020. We’re drafting at least 2 first rounders this year, after investing heavily in the draft the past 3-4 years, do we really need to be so concerned about our draft position next year ?


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Totally agree..... anyone would think our only option was to quickly send Alir to Port.

Who cares about what deal he was offered, more often than not another team will offer a better deal, kind of makes you happy to have the player contracted..... papley anyone

[The Big Cat]

It’s bemusing that some find it incredulous that anyone can question the club on anything.

Alternatives ?

Don’t trade a contracted player for a poor deal, and who knows, he has a very good year in 2021 and we re-sign him ?

Gauge interest outside of Port ?

Wait until deadline to put the pressure on the club approaching our contracted player ?

Trade our own future pick for Hickey ?

Talk of next year being a super draft. Half the draft pool in Victoria haven’t played a second of footy in 2020. We’re drafting at least 2 first rounders this year, after investing heavily in the draft the past 3-4 years, do we really need to be so concerned about our draft position next year ?


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You miss the point. We need points for this year’s A1 picks otherwise we do eat into our draft options for next years super draft.

[AB Swannie]

Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t we basically trade in Hickey for picks 58 & 62? The other parts of the deal cancel each other out because it involves a future 2nd and future 3rd for a current 2nd and current 3rd. We’ve obviously done this to assist with points.

Sure, Hickey is not an exciting trade but he fills a desperate need for pick 58 & 62. I wouldn’t call that “paying overs”.

[Ludwig]

I think Aliir will be a star at Port Adelaide and I don't think much of Hickey. Nonetheless, I don't mind the trade. We tend to evaluate trades in a non-contextual setting. So a trade that's roughly a player swap doesn't look all that good at first glance.

All the pieces of this trade would have been worked out beforehand. So it should be looked at as a single trade involving 3 clubs. In the context of what we needed to do, it was well thought out and well executed. In this context, the trade may well be viewed favourably. I'm not concerned about what Aliir does for Port or how this may have helped WCE. It's just about what we needed to do to improve as a team. Despite losing a better player than we gained, I think we did improve the team.

The things we accomplished in this trade have been discussed in some depth here, so I won't add to those details. In summary, we relieved some salary cap pressure, we improved our positional mix and we solved the points deficit problem. So the Swans should be a better team after the trade than before, even though we lost out on the core player swap in isolation.

It was very astute trading by the list management team.

[Melbourne_Blood]

You miss the point. We need points for this year’s A1 picks otherwise we do eat into our draft options for next years super draft.

I didn’t miss that point. We can go into deficit for next year. I said that next years so called ‘super draft’ fails to take into account half of those draftees haven’t played at all this year ( the under 17 Vics , who will make up half of the draft pool next year ). Also, that we’ve already invested heavily in the draft for the past 3-4 years or more, and will do again this year. How many years do we need to go the draft with first round picks before we’re satisfied ?


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[Jimitron5000]

The sky hasn't fallen in. The sun will come up etc. ect.
I like Aliir, but he was offered a great deal elsewhere. He plays in an area of the ground where we have coverage.
Tom Hickey? A serviceable ruckman who plays in area of the ground we are very short on.
To me, we have addressed an area of weakness and improved our points position for Campbell and Gulden.
Do I like it? Not really.
Do I like losing players we have developed over a number of years? No.
Can I see why we have done it? Yes.

[dimelb]

I think the Naismith injury had a lot to do with Aliir's departure. If Naismith had played through the season Aliir would have been permanently in the backline and perhaps developing in the experience. But we were stuck and had to rotate him with other talls which didn't help his growth as a defender. Good luck to him at Port and I won't be surprised if he turns out to be an impressive defender.

[Bay View]

I like Ludwig’s review of the trades. I will miss Allir, but welcome Hickey and wish him luck. Let’s see what he can do. I enjoyed the development of the team in 2020 and look forward to more progress in 2021.