2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Ralph Dawg]

Given the uncertainty of this year's draft and its potential weakness beyond the first dozen or so picks, the Cats will be getting themselves a bargain if the give their 2 late first rounders for Cameron. I wonder where that leaves their pursuit of B Crouch now?

[KTigers]

No COLA plus free agency is indeed a disaster for us and for GWS. AFL reaps what it sows. The fact Richmond got Lynch after winning the premiership just playing out again. Will keep happening.

Yep. Every time yet another good player heads south to "go home", it's just yet another win for the VFL.
And even though the VFL Grand Final will be played in Brisbane on Saturday night, order was restored
as another year (2058) was added onto the MCG GF contact to make up for the injustice.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I’ll guarantee by 2022, Gold Coast and Adelaide are ahead of GWS on the ladder.

Their slide will be rapid, and no amount of harvesting top picks every time a player leaves will save them.

I hate them as a club, so good riddance (whatever we think of AFL decisions around COLA etc).

[Markwebbos]

Given the uncertainty of this year's draft and its potential weakness beyond the first dozen or so picks, the Cats will be getting themselves a bargain if the give their 2 late first rounders for Cameron. I wonder where that leaves their pursuit of B Crouch now?

I wondered about Crouch too. Although I have read he doesnt want to go to a “big city” so his options are very limited.

[barry]

I’ll guarantee by 2022, Gold Coast and Adelaide are ahead of GWS on the ladder.

Their slide will be rapid, and no amount of harvesting top picks every time a player leaves will save them.

I hate them as a club, so good riddance (whatever we think of AFL decisions around COLA etc).

The AFL aren't going to get rid of the giants, so if they do become cellar dwellers, then all it is is a drain on the AFL and us in particular.

Your heart may stay "stuff em", but your head will say this is really bad for the swans. Look how much damage AFL took in Sydney this year without many games to go to. It's coverage in the newspapers was non existant.

[Ralph Dawg]

What the Covid season has shown is that the biggest money spinner for the AFL is the tv rights. To maximise these, they need 18 teams on the park. Doesn't really matter what the quality of the footy is like or how competitive some teams are. If anything, having strong Victorian clubs is better for them as it creates hype and interest in their heartland. The other teams are just there to make up the numbers. It's all very reminiscent of India's control over the ICC.

[dejavoodoo44]

I’m sure there will be numerous businesses in Geelong very happy to pay Cameron money so they can use his image in promotional material.

Geelong is a footy-mad city, AFL players provide attractive marketing material.

This is another financial disadvantage northern clubs face in league territory. Not many of our players are household names with immediately recognisable faces. Jake Lloyd won the Skilton Medal - but I’m not sure his face would be readily recognised on a used car sales roadside sign on Anzac Parade.

Re free agency - its negative impact on clubs’ ability to retain top players was exacerbated by the elimination of the Veterans Allowance. The allowance meant an attractive salary package could be offered to a player with a long career with much of it paid outside the cap. This at least gave lower-ranked clubs some chance of offering a financial incentive to retain players.

I actually agree with the abolition of the Veterans Allowance - it did distort fairness (for example when Geelong back in its glory years had nine players and close to $1 million paid outside the cap). But I suspect that its abolition at the same time as the introduction of free agency has been a bit of a double whammy for some clubs.

Yes, there will always be suspicion about third party player payments, until the AFL actually publish what the deals are. Currently, it's almost entirely an information free zone.

And on a related matter, I found this justification on the AFL site, of how Geelong can fit Cameron in their salary cap, to be a bit of mildly offensive guff.

"Tim Kelly's move to West Coast last season provided the Cats with flexibility, while Gary Ablett will retire and veterans including Tom Hawkins and Harry Taylor are this year coming off sizeable contracts. They have also been steadfast in recent years not to overpay for top-end talent including Patrick Dangerfield and Joel Selwood."

To work through that.

Kelly was drafted in 2017, as a 23 year old, second round pick. His contract for the two years he spent at Geelong, would have been the not particularly expensive contract, that most second round draftees get. So, the effect on their salary cap, would be much the same as, delisting a second round draft pick who didn't make the grade.

When Ablett signed, there was questioning about how they could fit him under the cap, when they already had Selwood, Dangerfield, Hawkins, etc. Their answer, was that because of family troubles, he was desperate to get back to Geelong, and therefore, his contract was much smaller than people thought. So, assuming that they were telling the truth, his retirement shouldn't be all that significant, salary cap wise.

In regards to Hawkins coming off contract: this season he won the Coleman; so I doubt if he'll be taking much of a pay cut.

While Taylor might be taking a pay cut, they have a number of other players who have stepped up. Therefore, they might be seeking a pay rise.

And finally, does the author actually know what Dangerfield and Selwood are getting? Surely there was a large financial incentive, for Dangerfield to move from Adelaide to Geelong. In another article on the AFL site, they claimed that the relaxed, semi-rural lifestyle of Geelong, was a big attraction. But I doubt if Adelaide is enough of a frenetic, urban hellhole, for that to be significant?

[KTigers]

The AFL aren't going to get rid of the giants, so if they do become cellar dwellers, then all it is is a drain on the AFL and us in particular.

Your heart may stay "stuff em", but your head will say this is really bad for the swans. Look how much damage AFL took in Sydney this year without many games to go to. It's coverage in the newspapers was non existant.

Agree. Has it been good for Brisbane and footy in QLD that the Suns have been struggling for ten years? Nope.

[Markwebbos]

Yes, there will always be suspicion about third party player payments, until the AFL actually publish what the deals are. Currently, it's almost entirely an information free zone.

If players earn more money outside the cap in Melbourne than they do in the non-AFL states, then there isn't a level playing field and it needs to be addressed.

It's so hypocritical of Eddie and others to go beserk at the suggestion of any sort of "extra" payment aka COLA. I'm confident that if the real numbers came out, it would show that clubs outside of VIC, SA and WA are at a significant financial disadvantage, leaving aside the "go home" factor, and higher cost of living.

[Thunder Shaker]

Free agency is unbalanced because it rewards established clubs at the expense of the others.

To balance it, it needs to have a cost in draft picks or points for the destination club.

Possible limits (that would only apply to free agents that do not attract compensation).
* 20% of the cost of the compensation to be applied as a points deficit for the destination club.
* Clubs are limited to signing three free agents per four years, with that limit reduced by half a player each time the club made the finals.
* A similar system to above, but each free agent has a value from zero to five points, and clubs are limited to 12 free agency points every four years with that limit reduced by 1 point for making the finals, by two points for making the preliminary finals, and by four points for the premiers. Clubs losing players get additional free agency points equal to half the player's value.

[Bloods05]

Agree. Has it been good for Brisbane and footy in QLD that the Suns have been struggling for ten years? Nope.

The issue with the Giants is that it was clearly the AFL's intention to engineer a premiership for them within their first few years, an ambition made even more plainly obvious through their ruthless and unconscionable treatment of the Swans over the recruitment of Buddy.

Footy fans instinctively feel that premierships need to be earned. To do otherwise violates our intrinsic sense of fairness. In the 70s and 80s Carlton bought premierships through having lots of wealthy sponsors. Ethically this is no different.

If the Giants were to build a successful team culture and supporter base gradually, painstakingly, and without obvious handouts from the AFL, there aren't too many supporters who would begrudge them winning a flag. As it stands, virtually no one gives a crap about them.

[Markwebbos]

Given the uncertainty of this year's draft and its potential weakness beyond the first dozen or so picks, the Cats will be getting themselves a bargain if the give their 2 late first rounders for Cameron. I wonder where that leaves their pursuit of B Crouch now?

Cats are now out of the running for BC, according to the Herald Sun

Category: | Herald Sun

[KTigers]

The issue with the Giants is that it was clearly the AFL's intention to engineer a premiership for them within their first few years, an ambition made even more plainly obvious through their ruthless and unconscionable treatment of the Swans over the recruitment of Buddy.

Footy fans instinctively feel that premierships need to be earned. To do otherwise violates our intrinsic sense of fairness. In the 70s and 80s Carlton bought premierships through having lots of wealthy sponsors. Ethically this is no different.

If the Giants were to build a successful team culture and supporter base gradually, painstakingly, and without obvious handouts from the AFL, there aren't too many supporters who would begrudge them winning a flag. As it stands, virtually no one gives a crap about them.

It's going to be tough to do that any time soon. As it stands there are only 40,000 people (30,000 for the Swans, and 10,000
for GWS) prepared to go to a AFL game in Sydney every second week out of a population of close to six million.

[Bloods05]

It's going to be tough to do that any time soon. As it stands there are only 40,000 people (30,000 for the Swans, and 10,000
for GWS) prepared to go to a AFL game in Sydney every second week out of a population of close to six million.

Which is why it needs to happen gradually, as it did with the Swans. You can't just graft a team onto a new city and expect people to fall in love with them instantly. And you can't give them unfair advantages, like the ridiculous Riverina thing.

[barry]

I think you could say that after year 3 of the giants, the AFL engineered them not to win a flag with all the stuff and players taken away from them.
With Cameron leaving, the team of ex giants is probably stronger than the still giants.