2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[0918330512]

In my opinion, the lesson is to trade young interstate players one year before their contract is up if they don’t recommit to the Swans?

Say to Chad or J-Mac. We appreciate and value you in our football club, but we won’t have you here in the final year of your contract if you don’t recommitt. We as a club are not doing the Jordan Dawson dance again.

There are three choices boys:

1) Sign onto a new contact and preferably to your free agency year at which point you have earnt the industry rights to make your own choice.

Creating a culture of 10 year loyalty by virtue of an early ultimatum.

2) We trade you to the best bid with one year remaining on your contract.

All well & good to make this demand but you could have north offering pick 1 & if the player doesn’t want to go there he just doesn’t sign. You can’t trade a player against his will to the best offer. He can enforce his remaining year. And then what? You delist him? He walks as a delisted free agent. Shop him around? We have the Dawson situation all over again.

3) You come back and we play you in the reserves for the season or to when you recommit.

So you essentially create a list clogger & a salary cap sponge who you likely devalue in trade as he isn’t demonstrating his potential at senior level ?

You will all say this is too hardcore. Even TheBloods will say this is too harsh but in the words of Cameron Frye “the Swans have to take a stand”

I’m sure TB would agree & who is Cameron Frye?? … ahhh Ferris Bueller’s … an 80’s reference … I see the irony

A few interstate players have been want aways. I think more have stayed. We’re doing ok.

A good analysis would be looking across the league at the number of interstate recruits who have left (who the clubs wanted to keep) vs the number who have stayed vs the number who the clubs were happy to let go

[Roadrunner]

I think the lesson is that if you can’t draft locally draft

a) players from SA, because no-one ever wants to go back there once they’ve escaped; and/or

b) players from country regions so the lure of mama’s home cooking isn’t a pull homewards.

Oh wait…

Thank you Liz-couldn’t have put it better myself! ????

However, as Bangalore and others have pointed out, we need to assess well before contracts run outf course some players may be reluctant to re-sign, and then we tell them they will be traded. We may lose talent, which we then stand to lose anyway, but we have more control in the trade period as the player is still under contract.

Applecore makes a good point: the AFL needs to change the status quo, as a player like Jordan can act like a Free Agent without actually being one.

[Roadrunner]

Don’t you want this thread to go on and on until the 26th of November when they hold the pre-season draft? We can debate Dawson for another 5 weeks. We can speculate if he’s staying, going or whether he gets to North or the crows.

Well ok Bangalore- agree it could be entertaining! But now that emotions are waning re losing Jordan, I’m thinking of players we have who could fill his role, though of course not quite the same. For example the Lizard on one flank, with support from JMac and Campbell, but prefer to groom Braeden for future midfield. Any other suggestions?

[Roadrunner]

Some people in the football world think that we should be ok with Jordan wanting to “go home” as he has been with us for 6 years and given good service.

Well NO- he was good the last half of last season and very good this year. So he has given us 1 and a half years of real service while being bang average in prior years. Yes, he showed talent and potential but he was pick 56 and played like that in his early years.
Bottom line: we’re the club that picked him and helped him become the player he is today- he owes us big time!

Very poor form if he doesn’t put pressure on the Crows to give us something acceptable- he really has the strongest card to play, as a threat of staying with us is so much stronger than being allowed to walk to the PSD!

[royboy42]

In my opinion, the lesson is to trade young interstate players one year before their contract is up if they don’t recommit to the Swans?

Say to Chad or J-Mac. We appreciate and value you in our football club, but we won’t have you here in the final year of your contract if you don’t recommitt. We as a club are not doing the Jordan Dawson dance again.

There are three choices boys:

1) Sign onto a new contact and preferably to your free agency year at which point you have earnt the industry rights to make your own choice.

2) We trade you to the best bid with one year remaining on your contract.

3) You come back and we play you in the reserves for the season or to when you recommit.

You will all say this is too hardcore. Even TheBloods will say this is too harsh but in the words of Cameron Frye “the Swans have to take a stand”

So the Swans will no longer honor their contracts?

[Markwebbos]

This morning Kane Cornes is saying that pick 11 and 51 is unders for Bobby Hill

Trade Talk LIVE: Join all the action from day eight of the AFL Trade Period

Jason McCartney at GWS had this to say about the Jye Caldwell deal last year with the Bombers. It has a familiar ring to it: "target a player, high quality, get him in the door, and then not [be] prepared to stump up the price to actually facilitate the deal,”

[Bangalore Swans]

Creating a culture of 10 year loyalty by virtue of an early ultimatum.


All well & good to make this demand but you could have north offering pick 1 & if the player doesn’t want to go there he just doesn’t sign. You can’t trade a player against his will to the best offer. He can enforce his remaining year. And then what? You delist him? He walks as a delisted free agent. Shop him around? We have the Dawson situation all over again.


So you essentially create a list clogger & a salary cap sponge who you likely devalue in trade as he isn’t demonstrating his potential at senior level ?


I’m sure TB would agree & who is Cameron Frye?? … ahhh Ferris Bueller’s … an 80’s reference … I see the irony

A few interstate players have been want aways. I think more have stayed. We’re doing ok.

A good analysis would be looking across the league at the number of interstate recruits who have left (who the clubs wanted to keep) vs the number who have stayed vs the number who the clubs were happy to let go

This is an outstanding post and provides a strong counter to some of my arguments.

Why is the go home factor so big in Australia for sportsman? American kids go to College, most moving out of home and then the elite sportsman go anywhere for a professional opportunity. Same for soccer players.

How has this go home culture been able to develop around the AFL? I think the talent pool is too small in the AFL, 25 million people with a chance to make an AFL list of 40 odd players on 18 teams. This breeds a culture of entitlement amongst the best players.

What about the NFL. Over 300 million population, 32 teams and around 63 players per team. You even have guys from Australia such as Jordan Mailata and Michael Dickson who are taking starting jobs and depriving Americans. This is a huge talent pool and so many people around America and the World want a job. They go wherever they can. There is no go factor is this league as the talent pool is so big and people won’t jeopardise a job.

[Roadrunner]

So the Swans will no longer honor their contracts?

Of course we need to honour contracts Royboy. But we must not wait until they just about run down before making a move. If the player is offered either an extension or a new contract and hesitates, we know ahead that something is up.
We left it too late with Jordan as we needed him to re- commit before the end of last year. If he didn’t sign then, we could have traded him to the Crows or Port and obtained a fair deal, however we would have missed out on a great season from him. That’s the risk, unfortunately but a stellar improvement like this is fairly rare. On balance, I think Jordan would have signed on for another 2 years last year.

[liz]

Living in Sydney (particularly the CBD and eastern suburbs, is not as attractive as it was 2 years ago. I get why moving back to a regional town on a city wage looks more appealing than previously.

Not sure I understand that. What has particularly changed in the last two years? Just the pandemic? And are you categorising Adelaide as a regional town?

[goswannies]

Not sure I understand that. What has particularly changed in the last two years? Just the pandemic? And are you categorising Adelaide as a regional town?

Adelaide locals won’t like that

They could be referring to Robe (although Jordan wouldn’t be living there in season, I shouldn’t think)

[Aprilbr]

This is an outstanding post and provides a strong counter to some of my arguments.

Why is the go home factor so big in Australia for sportsman? American kids go to College, most moving out of home and then the elite sportsman go anywhere for a professional opportunity. Same for soccer players.

How has this go home culture been able to develop around the AFL? I think the talent pool is too small in the AFL, 25 million people with a chance to make an AFL list of 40 odd players on 18 teams. This breeds a culture of entitlement amongst the best players.

What about the NFL. Over 300 million population, 32 teams and around 63 players per team. You even have guys from Australia such as Jordan Mailata and Michael Dickson who are taking starting jobs and depriving Americans. This is a huge talent pool and so many people around America and the World want a job. They go wherever they can. There is no go factor is this league as the talent pool is so big and people won’t jeopardise a job.

While I appreciate your comparison, the situation in US Sports is so different to our situation that its hard to draw a real comparison. Players move to play College Football as you comment. This means in those critical young adult years of 18 to 22 years old they are living in a scholar-athlete lifestyle in dormitory style accomodation. They are exposed to "big time" sports playing to those extraordinary crowds that they get at College Football but are not full-time, professional athletes. If they are good enough, they are drafted into the NFL around age 22 (some go earlier if they are exceptional). The median NFL salary is reported to be around US$850,000 with the minimum at $610,000. So they are much more mature and worldly when drafted and much better paid than our players.

[Mr Magoo]

Not sure I understand that. What has particularly changed in the last two years? Just the pandemic? And are you categorising Adelaide as a regional town?

Could be a big factor in this case. JDs other half could have been living a fairly normal existence this past 12 months in Adelaide surrounded by family / friends. Its hard for people to see beyond their own recent experiences so getting paid the same money to play footy in my home town with a cheaper standard of living doesnt seem so bad when the alternative is now not as attractive as it once might have been.

[Ludwig]

There's not much more to be said about the Dawson thing. It's not looking good. We might as well just wait and see what the final outcome will be. It also would seem that Ladhams is coming our way. It may end up being an effective swap of these 2 players. Bad deals happen all the time in AFL. If we had a bit of salary cap space, maybe we could fashion a good one for us one day.

[Mr Magoo]

While I appreciate your comparison, the situation in US Sports is so different to our situation that its hard to draw a real comparison. Players move to play College Football as you comment. This means in those critical young adult years of 18 to 22 years old they are living in a scholar-athlete lifestyle in dormitory style accomodation. They are exposed to "big time" sports playing to those extraordinary crowds that they get at College Football but are not full-time, professional athletes. If they are good enough, they are drafted into the NFL around age 22 (some go earlier if they are exceptional). The median NFL salary is reported to be around US$850,000 with the minimum at $610,000. So they are much more mature and worldly when drafted and much better paid than our players.

Its quite amazing the US system. Adults still go to watch their college team and often barrack for them more than an NFL team.

For the players . the flip side of the US system is that if you don't get drafted or make a college team there are virtually no local or minor leagues so in essence you just fall of a cliff to nothing.

[Markwebbos]

There's not much more to be said about the Dawson thing. It's not looking good. We might as well just wait and see what the final outcome will be. It also would seem that Ladhams is coming our way. It may end up being an effective swap of these 2 players. Bad deals happen all the time in AFL. If we had a bit of salary cap space, maybe we could fashion a good one for us one day.

I'm hoping we can get Ladhams for one of our picks in the 30s, so at the very least will end up with an additional first rounder after the dust has settled. Talk that we might take pick 33 as the sweetener from the Crows, which would give us something equivalent to about pick 8. Worst case we might have to bundle two picks in the 30s for something higher e.g. Collingwood's 27 or the Bulldogs 23 to get Ladhams.