2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Markwebbos]

I can't see Heeney or Lloyd going elsewhere unless their offers from elsewhere are extraordinary. Both also seem very content at the Swans.

Not convinced Lloyd is the future of the Swans. He’s been a great servant but feel others may overtake him.

[Aprilbr]

Not convinced Lloyd is the future of the Swans. He’s been a great servant but feel others may overtake him.

Well he is only 27, so plenty of footy left in him. If we don't want him, plenty of others will.

[goswannies]

From memory Rampe had to play Sydney AFL then SANFL then came back as a midfield / HBF ........then bit by bit we saw the possibility of a Key Possie defender ?

All I was alluding to was that it is so tricky determining the trajectory of some players just from small samples early on.

I thought that when he wasn’t initially drafted from school, in a bid to be drafted he played in the VFL with Western Bulldogs affiliate Williamstown and trialled with the Dogs before returning to Sydney AFL. Won a B&F with I don’t know who and then we rookie drafted him?

[gloveski]

I thought that when he wasn’t initially drafted from school, in a bid to be drafted he played in the VFL with Western Bulldogs affiliate Williamstown and trialled with the Dogs before returning to Sydney AFL. Won a B&F with I don’t know who and then we rookie drafted him?

So did I


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[mcs]

I can't see Heeney or Lloyd going elsewhere unless their offers from elsewhere are extraordinary. Both also seem very content at the Swans.

Me either - certainly can't see Heeney going anywhere. Lloyd - maybe if a big offer came in for him, but would seem unlikely to me.

[Auntie.Gerald]

GS ur right but same same in the journey amd initiation to reach snr afl etc.

"After school he spent three seasons in the Victorian Football League (VFL) with Williamstown. He was twice invited to train with the Western Bulldogs in the preseason but returned to Sydney shortly after playing in the 2011 VFL grand final. In 2012 he played for UNSW-Eastern Suburbs Bulldogs in the Sydney AFL and won the Phelan medal as the best player in the league for the season"

[gloveski]

GS ur right but same same in the journey amd initiation to reach snr afl etc.

"After school he spent three seasons in the Victorian Football League (VFL) with Williamstown. He was twice invited to train with the Western Bulldogs in the preseason but returned to Sydney shortly after playing in the 2011 VFL grand final. In 2012 he played for UNSW-Eastern Suburbs Bulldogs in the Sydney AFL and won the Phelan medal as the best player in the league for the season"

I always wonder what he would have been like if they let him loose in the midfield , but he’s such a good defender we will never know


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[Ralph Dawg]

I always wonder what he would have been like if they let him loose in the midfield , but he’s such a good defender we will never know


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He's just such a good player with a skill set that is suited anywhere on the park (except as a ruckman although I bet he would give that a good crack if asked). But I have often thought he would make a great midfielder, elite 2 way runner, big body, clean disposal, could play both inside and out. Maybe I'm onto something here..............

[KSAS]

I think there are a few more factors at play, and if you look at the lists of every other club I think you'd see the same pattern.

There are relatively fewer top quality key position players, especially forwards. It's the hardest position to play, and while it is glamorous if you make it, it also brings more scrutiny and pressure. The number of 193 cm (or thereabouts) people is lower than those half a foot shorter, and few of those are both athletic and skilled. It is thus tougher for clubs to recruit high quality key forwards (and to a lesser extent, quality key defenders).

There are also limited spots in a team for key position players. That might seem like a good thing, given my paragraph above, but it makes it much harder to retain quality depth if a club is lucky enough to find itself with AFL-standard key position players not able to get a game. If you're an up and coming midfielder who is on the cusp of senior footy, you are more likely to bide your time (for a short while) and believe that an opportunity will provide itself in one of the dozen or more non-key position. That's less likely if you're stuck in a queue behind a couple of established, high quality key defenders or forwards in your squad. So the good depth will move to a club where they think they'll get a better shot.

The second paragraph above certainly isn't exclusive to key position players, which is why it's hard for a club to retain quality depth right across the squad (and salary cap issues also come into play). But you can often get teenagers to come in and perform adequately in the non-key position roles, especially if they are surrounded by quality and experience. Even the best key position prospects almost always take two or three years before they are ready to contribute in a consistent, meaningful way.

I would also put Gould in this category of being a Key Position player as that is where we hope he'll end up becoming playing in defence. Myself like most, was excited by his potential when we drafted him influenced by his man boy physique & SANFL highlights reel. I was guilty of expecting too much too soon and quizzed why he hasn't been given a opportunity at senior level when so many of our other young draftees have.

Been reading here from our VFL observers & the club that Gould still has a few things to work on before being considered for senior selection. I noticed a comment from the club how last year the 2nd tier scratch matches which consisted of only 12-14 players per side, stifled players development which I think may've impacted Gould greatly. (Which is why I'm also so amazed at Warner's development this year compared to last).

So upon reflection & Liz's post above, i've now conceded Gould will take time to develop like fine wine & eventually become the long term quality KPD we'd anticipated. Only have to look at Rampe's comparatively late development as inspiration. I also still hold up hope for Melican as someone had also posted above, as key position players generally do take longer to develop.

Edit: Apologies just realised similar Gould discussion in the VFL thread.

[rb4x]

I am not convinced re Gould.

Laidler rated Gould behind this list of defenders in the game:- O'Riordan, Brand, Ling, O'Connor, Carruthers, McCartin, and Gulden. He was also behind Taylor, Clarke, Bell, Rowbottom, Bartholomaeus, Gray, Sinclair, Morrison, Amartey, Cordell, Thorne and McLean. That makes him the eighth best defender and twentieth overall according to Laidler with only Brewer and Sheather ranked behind him in the game. To me that indicates that Gould has a long way to go before he is in the picture for AFL selection.

SANFL form is way behind AFL level and possibly behind even NEAFL form. Remember Knoll was a top ruckman and Jordan Foote is a super star. Thilthorpe not showing much at SANFL level this year either.

[Captain]

Lloyd will attract decent offers (more than we can pay), so wouldn't surprise me if he left on massive coin and to move back to Victoria. I'm sure Carlton or Essendon are stupid enough to pay overs.

No way Heeney will go.

[Ludwig]

Lloyd is a pre-agent at the end of this season. He will be a RFA after the 2022 season, at which time he will turn 29. I don't think there's much risk of him leaving this year, but if a good deal comes along next year, including the AFL compo for us, we might let him go. The same can be said for Hewett this year.

These are 2 players that have been highly valued and ones that I've backed from the start. I'm not being negative about either, but feel that our personnel and game plan have evolved in a way where they are less valuable going forward and it might be more beneficial to take the draft picks and keep building with youth, even though we don't really need to become a more youthful team.

We may also find the salary cap relief beneficial if we want to go after a targeted player, as we may be at the stage of team development where this could be in play. We will also have a rather large group of young players wanting pay raises that we will want to retain.

Just a bit of speculation and things can change, and likely will change, by the time the trading season begins.


Just an interesting note: Rampe (174) and Lloyd (159) have racked up the most games played from the players taken in the 2012 rookie draft

[sprite]

I'll caveat this by saying he (Lloyd) is not one of my favourites.

I'd be happy to let Lloyd go this year, as we can cover him.

My belief is that he is over rated and only looks good because of the cheap possessions he racks up. Teams have started working him out by making him more accountable, getting a contested ball is not his game style.

Isn't he on reasonable money $500plus? Freeing that up would help us retain a couple players or pick up a KPD.

[Captain]

Is this the same Lloyd that won our B&F last year?

Guess coaches must just look at stats and nothing else...

[tlock]

I'd trade Hayward. Swans lose more games with him on the side than without. Offensive links just breaks down when he gets involved and his defence is woeful. In saying that, he made a good highlight reel in last week's game and happy to have egg on my face if he breaks out this year.