Match Thread. Swans v Hawthorn

[Ralph Dawg]

Of course they are- but………..

We’re missing a tall defender: Brand should have played. Our defence was a shambles, couldn’t clear the ball time and time again and when a long ball came in, you knew that the Hawks would either mark it or create a great chance for goal.

With Pelican and Reid injured and McCartin out of form(he was awful last night) we’re in trouble down back.

I thought Bell tried hard but is limited, but Wicks played undisciplined footy and must be dropped.

Our marking is almost non existent and the coaches need to address this- we get badly beaten in the air far too often.

Sam Reid, we need you! We may have to bring back McLean……..we can’t play so short against better teams and expect to win.

Our midfield battled hard, and though beaten, they kept at it.

Very disappointed in our forwards, especially Paps. No system, no teamwork, no pressure, just awful to watch and soooo frustrating.

Haven’t felt this bad for a long time! Thought this type of display was in the past.

Anyone got Alex Rance's number?

[neilfws]

Don't think I've ever attended a game and seen so little of it. I got a last-minute call to run on with the Auskickers at half-time. Turns out the process of getting them on and off takes most of the first 3 quarters! We did get to enjoy Buddy's first snap for goal, right in front of us.

Anyway, our kids had a fantastic time and appreciated the cheers from the O'Reilly crowd.

From what I read, we probably enjoyed the night more than anyone. It did have the feel of a danger game, with the less than convincing Saints win last week. Still, pretty disappointing stuff. Hopefully they can use the bye to rest, regroup and sort a few things out.

[Ludwig]

I’ve not read through this thread, having gotten home from the game and taken an hour or so to unwind, so maybe this has already been observed. But there was a game a few years back when we were fresh off the bye and we walloped Geelong by over 100 points. They were coming off two back to back six day breaks. They ran through treacle all night, our boys were floating on top of the ground.

Tonight’s reminds me of that match. Our blokes looked exhausted. It wasn’t just facing a side fresh from a bye - it was also off two six day breaks. I don’t really understand why it’s so hard for the AFL to fixture around the bye so as not to create such mismatches.

We were awful tonight - worse than the umpires - but we know the team is capable of much better so I reckon it’s a case of just moving on.

Thanks for doing the preamble for me.

It was very obvious early on that we were way off the pace of the game. I can't remember seeing so much open space for the opposition to run into. And it wasn't just one player; it was the entire team. Hawthorn were running. We were jogging.

We can blow off steam by criticizing the umpires and specific players, but it's just a deflection from examining the underlying causes for our poor performance. As is typical, journos asked Longmire if he saw this coming (in so many words), but said that everything looked fine during the week. Maybe it's true, and that in itself is a problem, or maybe it's preferable not to admit that you see trouble ahead but can't find a solution.

As Liz points out, there may be an inherent massive disadvantage to teams playing with significant rest differentials. I think this is a matter for the AFL to seriously investigate, because it goes directly to the integrity of the game. I would imagine that there would be plenty of data to draw upon from various sports all over the world, especially from the wealthy competitions in the U..S. and Europe, where these analyses must have been conducted.

As a club, the Swans need to take a closer look at the physiological and psychological aspects of how we prepare for games based on varying conditions. It's a complex problem and very little is obvious.

Part 2

I know we are 8-5, which seems pretty good, but nonetheless, we are still very much in development mode, and should face the post bye period with more of a focus on improving the team long term than pushing for finals. If we get there, fine. If not, that's okay too, if we use the time to have a better 2022 and beyond.

I feel that the midfield will work itself out, mainly because we have so many good players, and time will get the group working together better than they are now. The loss of Naismith and the PCL challenged Hickey leaves the team in a typical place of being undermanned in the ruck.

The forward line is in transition in regards to our tall forwards due to the large age differential between the veterans and the next generation. We're doing fine in the small forward area. I think the forward line development is coming along okay, even if the performances are not always up to scratch.

Our big problem is in defence. We were once again exposed for height. Fox is not a key defender and it's been a coaching staff error to play him as a key defender.

• I think it's time to swap in COR, but not as a key defender.
• Hewett has been okay, but it's time to end the experiment with playing him in defence and put him back in the midfield.
• Dawson is coming along as a 3rd defender and perhaps even the heir apparent for Rampe a few years down the road. But he too, is not a key defender.
• McCartin has been off the pace in recent games, but we have little choice but to persist with him at this time. But this should be constantly reviewed.
• Hopefully Melican will be ready to come back into the side after the bye.
• We should expose Gould and O'Connor to senior footy in the post bye period, even if they're not quite ready. Their development needs to be pushed along.
• The same for Ling and Campbell.
• Blakey seems a player who should be a good defender. He has all the right physical traits. I can see him developing into a Jake Lever type intercept marker. Some tall skinny types, like Haynes, Sam Taylor, Ridley and Dylan Grimes, have done well in this role. Does Blakey read the play well enough? Time to find out.
• We might consider trying Florent in defence, who has looked solid and composed under pressure.

We are getting good rebound out of defence, but the defensive aspects of the backline are seriously deficient and about as poor as I've seen for a Swans team. We won't get far persisting with a plan that's not working. So it's time to make some changes and try different things in search for a better solution.

[Agent 86]

Poor night of footy.

I love Heeney but currently is massively over rated. Gary Rohan is playing better footy in the same role....

Hickey was destroyed in the ruck.

Fox had his worst game yet. Thank god for Rampe.

Bell did nothing to show me he should get a game again. Same with Lewis Taylor.

Terrible night of footy.

Heeney is pretty banged up at the moment - but ‘overrated’ is harsh. Rohan has been going okay playing in a potent forward line where the better defenders are otherwise occupied. Cats also have strong midfield & ball movement seems less chaotic. I’d take Isaac any day.

I can’t bring myself to knock Hickey. He’s been great for us this year, beaten this time by a fresher player but in no way destroyed. We were simply beaten in all areas of this game.

Bell was not our worst. Has had little opportunity thus far and reckon he was okay in a badly beaten team.

Fox & Squizzy? Great reserves players.

Overall, we looked flat, tired, depleted across the ground. We’ve looked like we’re due for a spell for a while now, so wasn’t surprised the wheels totally fell off tonight.

Hoping we can come back refreshed and stronger after the break, but we’re still a middling team and our position on the ladder is flattering. Could have been top 4 (for a bit) if we’d turned up for this game - which is disappointing. But we ain’t a top 4 team.

Also hate to mention umpires, but 26-10 makes it hard to stay in the contest. However, I doubt we’d have won if that count was reversed.

[Blue Sun]

Papley has given away two umpire abuse penalties in the last couple of weeks.

It’s not good enough to give away penalties for umpiring abuse.

If MCS, Wardy, Stevo and Mark want to be Papley apologists and pile into me, so be it.

Papley is there to play the game, not abuse umpires. In the words of Captain Lee “I don’t give damn” if Papley is frustrated with umpiring.

What example does Papley set for young players when he gets so frustrated with umpires that he gives away free kicks for umpiring abuse.

Time for coaches to take a stand. It’s now happened twice. I think Papley should be given two weeks in the reserves to sort this out.

I’m sure the players are equally as frustrated with us Swans fans when it comes to umpiring. If you are continually officiated against eventually it becomes too much to tolerate and you crack. That happened to Papley last night. I’m fine with it. Maybe if enough players bring attention to it something might change. I’m sick of AFL officials and umpiring apologists turning a blind eye.

The AFL admitted the umpiring was substandard in the 2016 GF, which in all honesty cost us the flag - free kicks here and there make a HUGE difference to momentum and the mindset of players. Yet here we are in 2021, with the second youngest team in the competition and the umpires are still giving us a raw deal. If this was Richmond or another Victorian club it would be all over the papers.

I’m sick of it, you probably are as well, I don’t enjoy football like I did before 2016. Sounds dramatic I know, but it’s the truth

[TheBloods]

Your criticism you mean.....it's strange how little others see it the same way.

Your not a fan of me thats fine , but can you open your mind for just a second and consider that ny view on Rowbottom might not be such a minority view ??

Everyone i was sat with last night agreed hes been average this year and was poor last night , the handful of swans fans i talk to on Twitter were even harder on him than me and said if we had better midfield depth in the VFL he'd have been dropped a few weeks ago. Commentators dont get excited by him, he's yet to garner a single coaches vote this year despite playing a key role as an inside mid , never got a RS nomination which is something that even every day joes like Ronke and Melican got! At the pub or on the green anyone i talk to about our young players i don't think i've heard RB mentioned once

I understand he's popular on here and i have curbed my language around him out of respect for that but i know for a fact im not alone on him and there are more people growing less convinced by him every week . Hopefully he proves us wrong after the bye

[gazza]

spot on ludwig, i agree with your ideas, hewett is our best tagger,wasted down back,height in defence is a must,gould has been waiting long enough. we need gulden,campbell,melican,reid back , they are asking too much of heeny,plugging all the deficiences,put him back in the midfield let him do what he does best,he is not a chf

[Agent 86]

I’m sick of it, you probably are as well, I don’t enjoy football like I did before 2016. Sounds dramatic I know, but it’s the truth

If we’re gonna talk about 2016, we should remember that a fairer result would have seen us lose the GF to GWS (& they would’ve beaten us). They were the team that was really shafted that year.

But 2 Sydney teams in the GF would have been considered a disaster by the AFL.

[Roadrunner]

I’m sure the players are equally as frustrated with us Swans fans when it comes to umpiring. If you are continually officiated against eventually it becomes too much to tolerate and you crack. That happened to Papley last night. I’m fine with it. Maybe if enough players bring attention to it something might change. I’m sick of AFL officials and umpiring apologists turning a blind eye.

The AFL admitted the umpiring was substandard in the 2016 GF, which in all honesty cost us the flag - free kicks here and there make a HUGE difference to momentum and the mindset of players. Yet here we are in 2021, with the second youngest team in the competition and the umpires are still giving us a raw deal. If this was Richmond or another Victorian club it would be all over the papers.

I’m sick of it, you probably are as well, I don’t enjoy football like I did before 2016. Sounds dramatic I know, but it’s the truth

Agree 100% Blue Sun. Not only do we miss out on most of the 50/50’s, they missed obvious frees like Bell and Buddy.
This can be debilitating for the team, though I’m not saying this is the reason we lost.

Coaches can’t comment on umpiring but something needs to be done as this is ridiculous. Being second to the ball doesn’t help but there were heaps of HTB that we weren’t given. Surely umps can do better and at least be consistent during the match.

[Matty10]

And Chamberlain was right, the Hawthorn player did get away a small handball when Papley tackled. Papley probably didn’t see it because his view was almost certainly blocked by the Hawthorn player’s body.

I agree that Papley should not have engaged in abuse (even when considering the mitigating circumstances), but I don’t think Ray’s call was right. Even if the Hawks player got a small handball it was only going to himself (not another player) and is therefore the same as taking a bounce when being tackled - you are still deemed to be in possession. He should have been penalised for holding the ball.

[Molly dooker]

As soon as I saw Razor Ray last night, I knew it was game over.

He wasn't the only poor umpire last night though.

If only the umpires were consistent for both sides? What has to happen to make this possible?

[goodie3shoes]

Sam Reid would have been valuable last night. Underrated by some but can play every position including ball boy and orange peeler. Sad to have him often injured. I think he is off contract this year. Please keep him.
Oh, I thought Kennedy was our best and Razor our worst.

[royboy42]

How would you know if what I said was contrived?

For crying out loud, Bangalore, will you stop making everything about you?

It's seriously tedious.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Given how the game was going, I'd suggest there was plenty of grounds for our coaching panel to ring the positional changes on Friday night.
The only positional change I saw, was moving Longmire from the bench up to box.

[Nico]

We had 7 less possessions than the Dawks so I don't buy that tiredness was the true reason for our poor performance. I didn't notice that Lloyd, Rampe, Kennedy, Mills, Parker, Hickey, Amartey, McInenrney and Buddy stop running. Wicks looked energetic and Bell looked fit as a fiddle. Bell unfortunately always looks fit and the body of the perfect midfielder, but he doesn't get involved, and frankly only runs around looking really, really fit. Maybe once he found himself in the middle of the ground and got most of his stats close to the boundary. To me he doesn't have footy smarts. This past week Collingwood and Carlton have pretty much been labelled as "not having the cattle". Which is a fair observation.

What we saw last night was a lack of cattle and hence a disjointed team. Talking to Ludwig after the Freo game he gave a very accurate observation. We are about the Freo level. And that can be said of both Carlton and StKilda.

On Heeney what I don't get is he was BOG last week, yet last night he looked slow and disinterested.

- - - Updated - - -

[QUOTE=Ruck'n'Roll;820901]Given how the game was going, I'd suggest there was plenty of grounds for our coaching panel to ring the positional changes on Friday night.
The only positional change I saw, was moving Longmire from the bench up to box.[/QUOTE

Heeney at one stage went back only to discover his butter fingers.