BBBH

[Mark26]

BBBH was great for us and I’m happy if he is back in the fold. But no one is above criticism and he DID let the club and his team mates down numerous times. Our game has moved on from the bad old days and there is no place for hitting an opposition player with a fist- period! Anyone who does this needs to be called out, even if by the tea lady!

+1

No mere mortal is above reproach. BJ's book highlights the microcosm of Bloods' culture well and how honest teammates are encouraged to be. If a young player is prepared to speak up, they're exhibiting leadership qualities as far as I'm concerned, not disrespect.

[Sandridge]

+1

No mere mortal is above reproach. BJ's book highlights the microcosm of Bloods' culture well and how honest teammates are encouraged to be. If a young player is prepared to speak up, they're exhibiting leadership qualities as far as I'm concerned, not disrespect.

I don't know if this is correct but I was told by another Swans fan that with Leading Teams, if you pointed out a deficiency in a teammate's skills or mindset, you were then responsible for helping that teammate fix the issue.

[Bangalore Swans]

+1

No mere mortal is above reproach. BJ's book highlights the microcosm of Bloods' culture well and how honest teammates are encouraged to be. If a young player is prepared to speak up, they're exhibiting leadership qualities as far as I'm concerned, not disrespect.

That’s ridiculous. It’s the height of disrespect:

These are real world examples of the upstart lecturing Barry:

1) The medical resident can start lecturing the Chairmen of surgery in a group meeting:

2) The para legal can start lecturing the managing partner in a group environment

3 The work experience kid can start lecturing the CEO in a group meeting for playing golf with clients.

The young upstart and Barry are not equals despite sharing the same football field.

For a hypothetical, Chad has no right to ever lecture Franklin about anything to do with his football or preparation in a group meeting. Chad and Franklin are not equals. Chad’s trying to establish a senior career while Franklin is a Hall of Fame player. There would be no more Chadmania from me if I ever hear of him lecturing senior players in a group setting.

[Bloods05]

There would be no more Chadmania from me if I ever hear of him lecturing senior players in a group setting.

So there is still hope that some good will come from this ridiculous thread then.

[Roadrunner]

That’s ridiculous. It’s the height of disrespect:

These are real world examples of the upstart lecturing Barry:

1) The medical resident can start lecturing the Chairmen of surgery in a group meeting:

2) The para legal can start lecturing the managing partner in a group environment

3 The work experience kid can start lecturing the CEO in a group meeting for playing golf with clients.

The young upstart and Barry are not equals despite sharing the same football field.

For a hypothetical, Chad has no right to ever lecture Franklin about anything to do with his football or preparation in a group meeting. Chad and Franklin are not equals. Chad’s trying to establish a senior career while Franklin is a Hall of Fame player. There would be no more Chadmania from me if I ever hear of him lecturing senior players in a group setting.

For goodness sake Bangalore, quit this already!

Can’t you see the difference between your examples and hitting an opponent in a game?
Get a grip, man!

[Roadrunner]

A wise man knows when to stop.

Yes, but we’re talking about Bangalore!

Just joking????

[wolftone57]

Don't forget Aamon Buchanan. Massive contributor in 2005/6. Hard as nails.

Sorry you are right. I forgot the little guy. He was so hard at the player and ball. Caused several telling turnovers

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[bloodspirit]

So there is still hope that some good will come from this ridiculous thread then.

[wolftone57]

That’s ridiculous. It’s the height of disrespect:

These are real world examples of the upstart lecturing Barry:

1) The medical resident can start lecturing the Chairmen of surgery in a group meeting:

2) The para legal can start lecturing the managing partner in a group environment

3 The work experience kid can start lecturing the CEO in a group meeting for playing golf with clients.

The young upstart and Barry are not equals despite sharing the same football field.

For a hypothetical, Chad has no right to ever lecture Franklin about anything to do with his football or preparation in a group meeting. Chad and Franklin are not equals. Chad’s trying to establish a senior career while Franklin is a Hall of Fame player. There would be no more Chadmania from me if I ever hear of him lecturing senior players in a group setting.

If a head of surgery is technically incorrect or has incorrectly diagnosed a patient the resident has a duty to the patient to intervene. This is a part of universal precautionary care procedure. This involves the resident, a qualified doctor by the way, approaching the surgeon or head of surgery to discuss the issue. Even more pertinent is if the Head Surgeon is proposing an antiquated surgical procedure where a more relevant newer procedure would be a better option.

I think your last two examples are superfluous as they are not qualified. The players, no matter how junior, are qualified as they have been drafted and have qualified for the draft. If a player, any player, thinks behavior is not to the standard the group has agreed then they should be able to say that. It is about group norms and a charter of behavior. The Swans have a very strong behavioral ethos to which every person is expected to adhere. If those rules are broken then not only do players have a right to call that behavior into question. They have a responsibility.

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[Mark26]

That’s ridiculous. It’s the height of disrespect:

These are real world examples of the upstart lecturing Barry:

1) The medical resident can start lecturing the Chairmen of surgery in a group meeting:

2) The para legal can start lecturing the managing partner in a group environment

3 The work experience kid can start lecturing the CEO in a group meeting for playing golf with clients.

The young upstart and Barry are not equals despite sharing the same football field.

For a hypothetical, Chad has no right to ever lecture Franklin about anything to do with his football or preparation in a group meeting. Chad and Franklin are not equals. Chad’s trying to establish a senior career while Franklin is a Hall of Fame player. There would be no more Chadmania from me if I ever hear of him lecturing senior players in a group setting.

We are talking about completely differing contexts. If you are correct and status is equated with age at the Swans as indicated by your phrase "young upstart", then surely Gould should have more games than Campbell, Gulden should be told to keep it quiet when giving advice during games by more senior players and Rampe shouldn't be encouraging Sheldrick at training to speak up during drills. All of those young upstarts should know their place, right?

The Swans' culture is different to the ones you've described. I don't subscribe by the ageist heirarchy you abide by, nor do I think it's a prerequisite for admission into the respectful gentlemen's club.

[Bloods05]

For goodness sake Bangalore, quit this already!

Can’t you see the difference between your examples and hitting an opponent in a game?
Get a grip, man!

It's kind of funny how he can't even see that these examples are spurious. If someone in a workplace, any workplace - be it a hospital, a law firm, or a large corporation - is behaving badly and contravening the shared values of the workplace, then any employee, no matter how humble, is perfectly entitled to get stuck into them. In Bangalore's ideal world, workplace bullying and harassment would be rife.

[Mark26]

I don't know if this is correct but I was told by another Swans fan that with Leading Teams, if you pointed out a deficiency in a teammate's skills or mindset, you were then responsible for helping that teammate fix the issue.

I get that impression too. There's a chapter of BJ's book titled Knuckles where Macca is leading a knuckle push up session at Maroubra at 5am in response to one player's misdemeanor. The whole team seems to be there. I don't know if leaders instigate that type of response or - if as you say - any teammate initiates it.

[Goal Sneak]

That’s ridiculous. It’s the height of disrespect:

These are real world examples of the upstart lecturing Barry:

1) The medical resident can start lecturing the Chairmen of surgery in a group meeting:

2) The para legal can start lecturing the managing partner in a group environment

3 The work experience kid can start lecturing the CEO in a group meeting for playing golf with clients.

The young upstart and Barry are not equals despite sharing the same football field.

For a hypothetical, Chad has no right to ever lecture Franklin about anything to do with his football or preparation in a group meeting. Chad and Franklin are not equals. Chad’s trying to establish a senior career while Franklin is a Hall of Fame player. There would be no more Chadmania from me if I ever hear of him lecturing senior players in a group setting.

Here's an example you can add to your list.

4) A young upstart on a forum, calling the opinions of other posters (who have been around much longer than them) ridiculous.

[goswannies]

That’s ridiculous. It’s the height of disrespect:

These are real world examples of the upstart lecturing Barry:

1) The medical resident can start lecturing the Chairmen of surgery in a group meeting:

2) The para legal can start lecturing the managing partner in a group environment

3 The work experience kid can start lecturing the CEO in a group meeting for playing golf with clients.

The young upstart and Barry are not equals despite sharing the same football field.

For a hypothetical, Chad has no right to ever lecture Franklin about anything to do with his football or preparation in a group meeting. Chad and Franklin are not equals. Chad’s trying to establish a senior career while Franklin is a Hall of Fame player. There would be no more Chadmania from me if I ever hear of him lecturing senior players in a group setting.

With respect, I disagree with you on this matter and particularly with your examples in the above post. But, being vaguely familiar with your environment in example 1), I will use this to refute you.

You may - or may not - be familiar with a podcast and TV series called Dr Death which recounts the events of neurosurgeon Dr. Christopher Duntsch. He was called out by nursing staff and fellow doctors (of varying degrees of experience) for his unsafe practices. If it were not for others making an honest call there would have been significantly more deaths as a result of this “more senior/qualified” individual practicing medicine in his own manner.

As someone with over 2 decades experience in my field, I wholeheartedly acknowledge that new graduates bring a wealth of fresh knowledge into the work environment. While new graduates benefit from a more senior clinicians experience and knowledge, the senior clinician can also benefit from a new grad’s newly acquired current concept knowledge. If I was told there was a better (or even different) way to practice I would be open to this. Moreover, while we recognise that there is an experience disparity between veteran clinicians and new grads, they are expected to perform within the department as all other workers (with guidance when necessary). In the eyes of patients and other staff they are seen as our colleagues, and a afforded professional courtesy accordingly.

Barry Hall was a champion player and a champion Swan and from my experience a wonderful person off the field. However, that does not mean he cannot be held to account for his actions. Boris Johnson is experiencing this now among his colleagues. Donald Trump experienced at the hands of the voters (is there a bigger gap in qualification between a voter and a president?). Many tennis players of various rankings are expressing views on Novak.

But the reality is, for all of his accolades, experience and contribution, Barry Hall was a Swans player. And every other player in the meeting room was a player. My understanding is that this was one of the premises of Leading Teams and the development of the Swans culture. Everyone was accountable. And everyone was expected to hold others to account.

But your examples are, might I suggest, ridiculous to the extreme. A paralegal lecturing a managing partner? That analogy would be comparable to perhaps a club trainer lecturing Paul Roos. Apples and oranges. The fact is Barry Hall and your “upstart” are both players. Where are you drawing the line? 1 season experience vs 16 2 vs 15? 3 vs 14? So is an 8 year player an upstart relative to the 9 year veteran? Work experience lecturing the CEO? Now you’re comparing the volunteer boot studder to Tom Harley. Apple seed and orange trees. Utter nonsense. Perhaps your examples were meant in relative jest - but they appear somewhat foolish.

Barry was a premiership captain by virtue of happenstance (the captaincy was alternated weekly and it was his turn … and Stuart Maxfield was actually the captain that season until he resigned mid season and the Club adopted a co-captain model).

My opinion (and it’s simply an opinion) is that you have this very wrong and that you won’t let go. If I was the sole voice, you could and should dismiss me. However, similar sentiments are being echoed by many of your contemporaries on RWO (& while it would be ludicrous of me to point out that your relative newness to the RWO forum compared to the long standing members is analogous to the “upstart” to Barry Hall scenario, I’m sure the irony isn’t lost).

BS, perhaps you should heed the sagely advice of author C. JoyBell C. and “Choose your battles wisely.”

- - - Updated - - -

Here's an example you can add to your list.

4) A young upstart on a forum, calling the opinions of other posters (who have been around much longer than them) ridiculous.

In the length of time it took me to compose my response you stole my thunder!

[dejavoodoo44]

It's kind of funny how he can't even see that these examples are spurious. If someone in a workplace, any workplace - be it a hospital, a law firm, or a large corporation - is behaving badly and contravening the shared values of the workplace, then any employee, no matter how humble, is perfectly entitled to get stuck into them. In Bangalore's ideal world, workplace bullying and harassment would be rife.

Yes, although, what I find most amusing, is how a self-proclaimed defender of free speech, has made post after post, essentially attacking free speech. I mean, certainly since Roosy took over as coach, the Swans have been organised in a manner that encourages people to freely communicate. But apparently a young player was egregiously out of line, because in a meeting structure where players are supposed to express their opinions, he expressed an opinion. Go figure.