2022 List management, trading, drafting

[stevoswan]

Oh, you could be right stevoswan.
In which case I wonder whether purchasing another big$ marguee forward would lead us to a flag or keep us from one though? Our cygnets will need pay rises as their profiles improve, I'd hate to see an exodus just to fit in an expensive buy - and we didn't need one in 2012.

Tend to agree.

[stevoswan]

An exodus might be inevitable anyway .. and might be necessary .. we may take a few years to settle on the core group that we think can take us to a flag.. and the rest .. may be the collateral damage we need to clear up salary cap space for the kind of talent who will push us over the edge for a flag!

It seems unthinkable now .. they are such a big group of young cygnets, and oh so impressive .. so tight knit as they talk about all the time .. but the harsh truth is a few of them probably won't finish their careers as swans! Tis the reality of being a NSW club.. money will always be tight!

Hopefully they realise that staying, even for less than they could get elsewhere, would allow them to enjoy the fruits of their labours and get a flag (or two)......then they can chase the big bucks elsewhere.

Why leave before the enjoying the spoils of success?

[NeonBible]

Hopefully they realise that staying, even for less than they could get elsewhere, would allow them to enjoy the fruits of their labours and get a flag (or two)......then they can chase the big bucks elsewhere.

Why leave before the enjoying the spoils of success?

It comes down to the individual stevo. Why did Dawson leave?? No one but Jordan can answer that, and it isn't any of our business what his answer is unfortunately! Such is life!!

What we can hope.. is that we have enough who prioritise loyalty over the dollar .. Wilbur Hayward.. he re-signed for 5 years.. i was shocked.. massive commitment from a SA kid, first round draft pick.. loyalty runs through his veins it would seem.. Jimmy Rowbottom, comes from one of the most well off families in Melbourne.. doubt he would be fussed about money.. then there are the academy lads.. Heeney, turns his back on likely big opportunities to re-sign for life! Many of our other NSW talents, whether they are essential or not, will hopefully follow suit!

From there.. it allows us to splash out that little bit more to secure the essential talents like Juzzy from Melbourne, Chad and LoganMc from WA, or Tommy Mac from Geelong.

[Ludwig]

I'm tempted to think that Logan is worth banking on at this stage.

We have to bank on Logan until proven otherwise, and so far he looks the goods. Finishing in the top 8 and landing a top shelf key forward are usually not compatible. We were very lucky how things unfolded 2 drafts ago.

I'd say we are pretty close to being topped out with salary cap and we will need the cap space from the impending JPK and Franklin retirements to resign all our young stars. I don't see us having lots to spend on free agents. Rather, I think we will need to have cash in the kitty to counter offers made for our players.

I would certainly like to keep Lloyd, but there has to be a limit to what we can spend. We can't stop over the top offers from being made and if it comes to that, we will just have to let Lloyd go. At 29, he has some good years left, but we should be looking for a replacement anyway, and I think we already have some on our list, especially with some position shuffling.

[i'm-uninformed2]

My understanding is we cleared some cap space last year, primarily from The Rat not taking the good money we had set aside for him, and Hewett’s departure. And whilst I don’t know the numbers, I understand Heeney re-signed on very good money, but not on what he was on - which was either side of $900k.

We should be ok the next couple of years. The challenge will build again though. In the next two years, we have JMac, Paps, Chad, the two McCartins (and Pat would be on bugger all) and Mills as must keeps, before we get to Lloyd or others. The issue will then be followed by potential elites like Blakey, Gulden, Campbell, Logan etc getting to their third contract, which will see a spike in price again on their current trajectory.

The odds of us taking a high priced FA are minimal. The odds are more on someone outside our elite group being spat out like Hewett was, and where we recruit it’s for a role like we have with Ladhams and Hickey

[Goal Sneak]

We have to bank on Logan until proven otherwise, and so far he looks the goods. Finishing in the top 8 and landing a top shelf key forward are usually not compatible. We were very lucky how things unfolded 2 drafts ago.

I'd say we are pretty close to being topped out with salary cap and we will need the cap space from the impending JPK and Franklin retirements to resign all our young stars. I don't see us having lots to spend on free agents. Rather, I think we will need to have cash in the kitty to counter offers made for our players.

I would certainly like to keep Lloyd, but there has to be a limit to what we can spend. We can't stop over the top offers from being made and if it comes to that, we will just have to let Lloyd go. At 29, he has some good years left, but we should be looking for a replacement anyway, and I think we already have some on our list, especially with some position shuffling.

Not to mention dealing with the fallout when we manage to pull off such a feat!

We really were lucky to have Logan pop up in our trade window, he looks to be a very smart footballer who can read the play and back up his vision with natural skills. Glad we were smart enough to grab him when we did, I think he'll be a solid investment that will pay some healthy dividends.

It's difficult to ascertain the challenges The Swans face regarding the salary cap but I tend to agree that we're probably leaning more towards topping out than having room to target a big $ player.

[Aprilbr]

Lloyd was interviewed this afternoon on SEN by Dwyane Russell. He was asked about his contract situation. He said he is keen to be a career Swan player and hopes that will be the case. Negotiations are ongoing but there is no rush from his perspective. He is just focusing on his footy.

[Steve]

2022 List management, trading, drafting

I would certainly like to keep Lloyd, but there has to be a limit to what we can spend. We can't stop over the top offers from being made and if it comes to that, we will just have to let Lloyd go. At 29, he has some good years left, but we should be looking for a replacement anyway, and I think we already have some on our list, especially with some position shuffling.

Agree 100% - he squeezed us last time when there was some other clubs interested, this time I think we should be very comfortable offering what he’s worth and letting him go if he can get a better offer (probably unlikely anyone is that interested now).

Previously he was the best of a fairly poor bunch of kicks in defence, but you see the difference in guys who have the skill and penetration in their kicking like Campbell and Blakey to open up options that players like Lloyd just can’t.

Lloyd is OK chipping a pass 20m if his teammate is clear on his own, or going the 45m long down the line, but you never see him really open up options due to the lack of penetration or precision in his kicking.

He covers a lot of ground but he’s also fairly ordinary as a 1-1 defender, I would honestly prioritise 30 others guys ahead of him for the future.

[Aprilbr]

I think you under-estimate him a bit. He has consistently finished in our top 5 in the club b&f over time which suggests the coaches rate him highly. I was at the Bulldogs game and in the first quarter when we were under seige from their dominance, his composure under extreme pressure was noticeable. I think he would be of great interest to clubs with young lists. Its a matter of how much is reasonable to pay to retain him.

[707]

It makes me chuckle when posters discuss contract $ and salary cap pressure. The fact is we know very little about what players are actually on, it is pure speculation.

The longer the contract, the less the annual salary is what normally happens, player gets security of a long contract regardless of form or injury but takes less in return. We are tending to sign key players to long contracts, make what you will of that.

Now Buddy is on a much reduced amount, we must be comfortably under the cap, we did after all cope with the reduced Covid cap.

Doubt anyone we want to keep is squeezed out in future due to cap space

[O'Reilly Boy]

I think you under-estimate him a bit. He has consistently finished in our top 5 in the club b&f over time which suggests the coaches rate him highly. I was at the Bulldogs game and in the first quarter when we were under seige from their dominance, his composure under extreme pressure was noticeable. I think he would be of great interest to clubs with young lists. Its a matter of how much is reasonable to pay to retain him.

I enjoyed his game when he played a bit further up the ground on the outside. Good game sense. Not sure where he would sit on a depth chart for our wings/outside mids, though.

[The Big Cat]

It makes me chuckle when posters discuss contract $ and salary cap pressure. The fact is we know very little about what players are actually on, it is pure speculation.

Now Buddy is on a much reduced amount, we must be comfortably under the cap, we did after all cope with the reduced Covid cap.

Can't help smiling when people claim we will be under the cap next year when Bud's contract expires. That eventuality will have been build into plans from the day he signed nine years ago.

[bloodspirit]

There are 35 sleeps until the mid-season rookie draft. Currently we are one of just 5 clubs with a space to fill on our list, although apparently there are 3 more that could join, and more again if there are additional injuries between now and 1 June. I think we will make use of our pick. Who should we take? Best available? Or choose for need?

I tend to think we could use an extra KPD, especially if we are not convinced about Gould. While we certainly have a few options there (Melican, BOC and Gould are all outside our best 22 and have ability to play as KPDs, with Sam Reid another who has trained to play as a KPD over the last pre-season) none of them are really proven and Paddy's head knock shows we could benefit from some extra depth. Fortunately we are no longer in great need of rucks having recruited Hickey and McAndrew and Ladhams in the past 18 months. And I don't think there is any other position of great need either. On the other hand we didn't draft a KPD at the end of 2021 because we didn't believe in the quality of the options available and so maybe we want to hold out until someone we really rate is available?

Anyway, assuming there is no standout option other than a defender, I reckon a player we might well go for is Mutaz El Nour. We got to see him play against us when he was part of the Bullants team that beat our reserves in their last outing and he did well. He is also one of the players we have nominated to be a top-up for us in case we get ravaged by Covid - so clearly we have an eye on him. He's not super tall (192 cm) but he's rangy, athletic, good interceptor from a Sudanese background. He offers a bit of a point of difference to the others on our list. He turns 21 years old in August and has been on the radar of recruiters for a while without ever having been picked and struggling to even get games at VFL level through the pandemic. Anyway, he's been doing well at VFL level this season and here's a great write up about him: A young Bullant taking all before him – Northern Bullants FC.

Does anyone have a better, or just an alternative, suggestion?

[Steve]

I think you under-estimate him a bit. He has consistently finished in our top 5 in the club b&f over time which suggests the coaches rate him highly. I was at the Bulldogs game and in the first quarter when we were under seige from their dominance, his composure under extreme pressure was noticeable. I think he would be of great interest to clubs with young lists. Its a matter of how much is reasonable to pay to retain him.

I agree his composure is generally good - he’s been given a role in our defence and done that consistently well for some time.

But would you rate him elite in any meaningful category? He’s not great 1-1 so can the given a job to shut down a small forward, I think his kicking lacks penetration and precision so having the ball in his hands isn’t really creative, and he isn’t overly quick so won’t break the lines.

His disposal efficiency would be high but I think that’s reflective of generally taking safe and uncreative options. We’ve probably needed that in the past and it’s reflected our game style, so it’s not a criticism, just that it’s not as useful to us moving forward.

The high-priced ‘general defenders’ are more those who take the game on, either with their speed or creativity/penetration with their kicking to open things up.

[Steve]

With the mid season draft, I think the only scenarios you would participate are if you:

1) have a desperate need due to injury and need to replace that ASAP

2) there is a standout player (who missed out in last year’s draft) who will go early in the main draft this year, and you have the chance to grab them early

Last year was quite speculative with some of the ruckmen, after a couple of COVID years.

I think we have reasonable depth in most areas - I don’t think it’s overly realistic anyway to bring someone in mid-year and expect they’ll be ready-to-go and fill a void.