2022 List management, trading, drafting

[Aprilbr]

Who does that leave. Cunningham, Ronke, Bell and Naismith. Cunningham has a contract in front of him. Wicks supposedly needs a promotion to the senior list plus Francis possibly coming in. Say three to draft. Numbers are looking very tight unless someone is traded out or we reduce the size of our Senior list.

Wicks is under contract from memory. Naismith, Bell and Ronke all staring down delisting if there is no trade interest in them.

[gloveski]

Clarke and Gould sign one-year deals

Ryan Clarke and Will Gould sign on for 2023

Good to see , I still have high hopes for Gould . He is still only 21 and now a few pre seasons under his belt I can see him playing seniors this year


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[KSAS]

Looking at the draft picks order as they currently stand, we have picks 14, 17, 37 & 75. We've effectively traded in Ladhams for pick 57 as that pick has gone to Port as part of deal done last year (our future 3rd). The following AGE Draft update has a nice scrolling draft order table embedded half way down: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/...05-p5bnie.html

[ugg]

The full trade was Ladhams and pick 16 (eventually 18 after F/S and academy bids) for pick 12 (eventually 14) and future 3rd. Port went on to trade their future 2nd (which turned out to be 26 after their lower than expected finish) and pick 12 (eventually 14) for pick 10 (eventually 12)

So they effectively traded Ladhams, #18 (Sheldrick), #26 (2023) for #12 (Sinn)

[707]

Great news!

Clarke demonstrates the value of hard work and selflessness.

Gould demonstrates patience, improvement in fitness and leadership. Hearing him in the reserves he is a big talker.

Gould captained the SA U18 side so obviously has leadership qualities, must have had interest from the SA sides so well done he has committed. We've gone quietly about securing everyone we want to, a quality club.

[liz]

The full trade was Ladhams and pick 16 (eventually 18 after F/S and academy bids) for pick 12 (eventually 14) and future 3rd. Port went on to trade their future 2nd (which turned out to be 26 after their lower than expected finish) and pick 12 (eventually 14) for pick 10 (eventually 12)

So they effectively traded Ladhams, #18 (Sheldrick), #26 (2023) for #12 (Sinn)

Why is the #26 pick 2023? If they traded a future second last year, surely it's now in this year's draft?

[Ludwig]

I wonder if we could offer our pick 17 + our 4th rounder to Brisbane for their pick 21 and a future 2nd rounder. That would give them a 1st round pick, albeit a late one, to get the Dunkley trade over the line. I would like to keep our pick 14, but after that pick there are a lot of good choices in the 20 to 30 range so don't feel that trading down will hurt us. Another 2nd rounder could be useful next year.

I suspect that we didn't offer Cunningham much of a contract. I think he's a good player, but probably wouldn't have a big value on the open market. I think he'll end up staying.

Very pleased about Gould. He had an excellent year in the VFL and looks a promising replacement for Rampe. He plays the kind of game we like to play, so fits well into our game plan.

I would like to keep Ronke if he can't find another club to take him. I think he's good enough to play in our AFL side if we restructure our forward line to exclude a tagger. If we let go Naismith and Bell and bring in Francis, our list size would be 39, which would be enough for 3 ND picks, 1 rookie pick and an open spot for the midseason draft. We might be stuck with Melican for another year, but if we can get him off our books we might look at recruiting a developing ruckman.

From what's going down this trade period, the strong are getting stronger and the weak are getting weaker. We are going to have grow organically, as they say, to stay in the top 4, despite being a good team with a good young list. The competition will be very tough. Geelong, Melbourne, Richmond, Carlton, Collingwood and Brisbane may all be stronger in 2023.

[ugg]

Why is the #26 pick 2023? If they traded a future second last year, surely it's now in this year's draft?

Yes you are right, I confused myself because it was a future pick at the time of the trade.

[111431]

I wonder if we could offer our pick 17 + our 4th rounder to Brisbane for their pick 21 and a future 2nd rounder. That would give them a 1st round pick, albeit a late one, to get the Dunkley trade over the line. I would like to keep our pick 14, but after that pick there are a lot of good choices in the 20 to 30 range so don't feel that trading down will hurt us. Another 2nd rounder could be useful next year.

I suspect that we didn't offer Cunningham much of a contract. I think he's a good player, but probably wouldn't have a big value on the open market. I think he'll end up staying.

Very pleased about Gould. He had an excellent year in the VFL and looks a promising replacement for Rampe. He plays the kind of game we like to play, so fits well into our game plan.

I would like to keep Ronke if he can't find another club to take him. I think he's good enough to play in our AFL side if we restructure our forward line to exclude a tagger. If we let go Naismith and Bell and bring in Francis, our list size would be 39, which would be enough for 3 ND picks, 1 rookie pick and an open spot for the midseason draft. We might be stuck with Melican for another year, but if we can get him off our books we might look at recruiting a developing ruckman.

From what's going down this trade period, the strong are getting stronger and the weak are getting weaker. We are going to have grow organically, as they say, to stay in the top 4, despite being a good team with a good young list. The competition will be very tough. Geelong, Melbourne, Richmond, Carlton, Collingwood and Brisbane may all be stronger in 2023.

There’s good sense in this trade suggestion Ugg. Brisbane badly need a first round for Dunkley and, unless we have an idea to package our first 2 picks together to go higher up the draft, the difference between the picks is negligible. Supposedly next year is a better draft so to have more options in it makes some sense

[Auntie.Gerald]

GARDINERS comments re the development of Gould as a Key Defender probably help us all understand the evolution from almost a running HBF in reps, colts and park footy to taking on a Rampe type role in our backline

Massive undertaking at 191cm and only now 21yrs old to push into pur backline in the senior side.

[Agent 86]

On another note, I'm trying to comprehend how Geelong can absorb the stupid money Bowes was on & stay within the cap? & surely this will cause some unrest at the cattery given what we hear some of the seniors get paid?

Unless their cap is the TARDIS, how does it happen?

[707]

On another note, I'm trying to comprehend how Geelong can absorb the stupid money Bowes was on & stay within the cap? & surely this will cause some unrest at the cattery given what we hear some of the seniors get paid?

Unless their cap is the TARDIS, how does it happen?

They can't fit $850k x 2 in their cap so I assume Bowes has agreed to take a little more over more years. The caps that would have to be most dodgy are Geelong and Carlton. Both have out of cap financial opportunities for players so it's reported, property development is big around Geelong but Carlton's is a bit invisyble

On pick trading, which goes on until the week before the ND, but needs to happen now if you want to use traded in picks in a trade. I'm sure there's a number of teams talking to us but we can sit tight with a couple of useful picks unless a team approaches us with a compelling pick deal. The list management team would have their own 'Phantom Draft' so they know who we would miss by trading out or who would likely still be there if trading down.

Brisbane's seemingly impossible task to get Dunkley and two F/S seems to have run aground with now having points for the two F/S but no collateral for Dunkley. Freo don't appear very close to landing Jackson either and Port's mammoth task of landing JHF is grinding on. Will be the first trade period for years that Dodoro hasn't 'won' LOL

Interesting days.

[Ludwig]

Brisbane badly need a first round for Dunkley and, unless we have an idea to package our first 2 picks together to go higher up the draft, the difference between the picks is negligible. Supposedly next year is a better draft so to have more options in it makes some sense

The way I'm looking at this draft is to set a priority for a tall KPP, which we would probably take at our 1st pick. The main candidates are Busslinger at 196 cm, Hayes at 197 cm, and Keeler (who I like the most) at 198 cm. At least 1 should be available at our 1st pick and possibly all 3 will be available.

After that, I think the draft flattens out until around pick 30, with lots of prospects who could be classified as tall midfielders, tall utilities or key defenders of average height (~193cm). A pick in the early 20s should secure a good prospect.

I might be willing to trade our 2nd round pick for a 2023 2nd rounder, depending on how the trade period pans out. Maybe something to consider on draft night as well.

I think this strategy gives us the depth we need to cover impending losses of KPPs like Buddy, Reid and Rampe over the next couple of years. An extra pick in the 2nd round could be useful next year if we have to recruit a ruckman. I'm not worried about midfielders as the queue is long enough to break into the senior side, so we don't need to increase the competition for spots there.

[Blood Fever]

They can't fit $850k x 2 in their cap so I assume Bowes has agreed to take a little more over more years. The caps that would have to be most dodgy are Geelong and Carlton. Both have out of cap financial opportunities for players so it's reported, property development is big around Geelong but Carlton's is a bit invisyble

Are we sure about these property deals? Lifestyle is important and down there on the coast is a lot quieter etc. A number of their players are from around there and the western district.

[liz]

I wonder if we could offer our pick 17 + our 4th rounder to Brisbane for their pick 21 and a future 2nd rounder. That would give them a 1st round pick, albeit a late one, to get the Dunkley trade over the line. I would like to keep our pick 14, but after that pick there are a lot of good choices in the 20 to 30 range so don't feel that trading down will hurt us. Another 2nd rounder could be useful next year.

Pick 17 isn't going to get Dunkley to the Lions on its own. If the Dogs feel they have few options, they might accept pick 17 and the Lions' first round pick next year. But the Lions can't trade out a future first round pick unless it has all its other future picks in tact (or equivalent round picks traded in from other clubs). I've just had a look at the fantastic resource on BF that tracks current year and future picks traded, which indicates that the Lions hold a single future second round pick at the moment. It's clearly not their own, but I'd have to go digging further to work out whose pick it is and how they got it. But whoever's it is, they can't really trade it if they plan on trading their future first.

Resource - FUTURE PICKS - 2023 Provisional Draft Order (updated throughout the trade period) | Page 2 | BigFooty Forum

I wonder if it occurred to anyone at the Lions that, in a season where you finished in the top four (so don't have a high pick) and you're about to recruit the number one draft selection and another player likely in the late first round, it might not be feasible to try and recruit another established, decent quality player who is going to cost you two late first round picks (at least) or one pretty early first round pick. Not unless you're willing to give up something good (or lose something good, willingly or unwillingly), something better than McStay. Though presumably McStay will get them a second round pick (towards the end of the second round) so long as they succeed in manipulating free agency by trading in Gunston.