2023 Preseason

[Auntie.Gerald]

Mills had to play in his non preferred position in defence for many years which maybe similar for Campbell before getting back into the mids

[liz]

Campbell played both intraclub match simulations in the midfield - starting at most centre bounces. I think he was alongside Parker for most of the time, matched up against Rowbottom and some combination of Mills, Papley, Sheldrick. Errol was on the same team in one of the sessions and in the opposing team for the other, though not always starting at centre bounces.

I wonder if the time he spent in defence against Brisbane reflects where the coaches seem him predominantly playing this year (at AFL or VFL level) or whether it reflects the defensive stocks that were available last Friday. In particular, Fox didn't play.

I think it's also relevant that Mills' extended time served in defence reflected how valuable he became in that role, rather than any deficiency (perceived or otherwise) in his midfield ability. He didn't get a chance to show what he could do in the midfield until the coaches were confident they had others who could take his role in defence.

Campbell hasn't made himself invaluable in a defensive role yet. He's not even cemented himself into the best 22 (as was), let alone into the "defensive 7". So that really gets rid of a reason not to experiment where the team might get the best value out of him.

[Ludwig]

Campbell played both intraclub match simulations in the midfield - starting at most centre bounces. I think he was alongside Parker for most of the time, matched up against Rowbottom and some combination of Mills, Papley, Sheldrick. Errol was on the same team in one of the sessions and in the opposing team for the other, though not always starting at centre bounces.

I wonder if the time he spent in defence against Brisbane reflects where the coaches seem him predominantly playing this year (at AFL or VFL level) or whether it reflects the defensive stocks that were available last Friday. In particular, Fox didn't play.

I think it's also relevant that Mills' extended time served in defence reflected how valuable he became in that role, rather than any deficiency (perceived or otherwise) in his midfield ability. He didn't get a chance to show what he could do in the midfield until the coaches were confident they had others who could take his role in defence.

Campbell hasn't made himself invaluable in a defensive role yet. He's not even cemented himself into the best 22 (as was), let alone into the "defensive 7". So that really gets rid of a reason not to experiment where the team might get the best value out of him.

I think Mills will shift to a different role this year, mainly due to the number of inside mids we have at present and wanting a mix with more speed in the centre. Parker, Rowbottom and Warner look to be the main CBA triplet, with plenty of appearances from Papley and Gulden. I saw that we played Roberts in the midfield for the short time he was out there and Sheldrick is a natural inside mid. BTW, Roberts looked really lean and fit and the preseason reports have been encouraging. He should be a good one. Mills' versatility makes him the easiest one to relocate from the midfield. He's become a true very high value utility.

It's hard to say where Campbell will end up. He's capable of playing almost anywhere on the ground. We simply don't have a natural spot for him just yet. We were a bit short on defenders this week, but should be well stocked both this season and into the future. Of the vets, Fox and Cunningham didn't play. Sheather will hopefully pick up where he left off before is injury last year. Vickery could well be in the side in a year or 2. And Corey Warner played mostly at halfback in his draft year.

The Swans have a lot of good young players vying for spots in the side. It's hard to know where they'll end up.

[Mountain Man]

I think Mills played in the defensive role when that was the priority from a team perspective - the 'young' Swans were struggling through those years

[royboy42]

I really meant he just has to show substantial 'improvement'.....maybe not be a world beater. Can you honestly say Logan had a better year last year than 2021? His first three games ever were pretty much better than anything he's produced since. I understand tall forwards 'take a while to mature' etc etc but I reckon it's time to deliver on all that promise of being "one of the most exciting prospects to come along in awhile" and "Buddy's heir apparent" as he was being touted when we drafted him.

As for Campbell, he seems to be being groomed in the same way as Mills.....so yes, he (and Swans fans) may have to be patient.

Fair enough?

I feel for Logan trying to make his mark when Bud takes his leading lanes whenever he wants to.
And guys upfield seek Buddy out with Logan very much a secondary option.
As long as Bud has the skills and abiity, he'll continue to dominate wherever he wants, and so he should.
I seem to remember that Logan has played much better when Buddy is out.
Give him a forward line with free rein and I think we're going to get our eyes opened.

[neilfws]

I seem to remember that Logan has played much better when Buddy is out.
Give him a forward line with free rein and I think we're going to get our eyes opened.

It must be stats time again in 2023!

Of McDonald's 24 games, Franklin played in 20. In the 4 without Franklin, McDonald scored 10 goals (2.5 per game). In the 20 with Franklin, 14 goals (0.7 per game). For comparison Franklin's average in those 20 games is 2.35.

It's obviously skewed by the uneven numbers, and there are more factors at play in a game than the presence/absence of one player. But I think we can say McDonald has gone OK when he's been the main forward option.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Neil was there any other stat of significance

Ie was Hayward, Paps, Heeney scoring more or less thru these games etc ? With or without Bud ?

[Auntie.Gerald]

Foxsports today

"Young halfback Braeden Campbell, who was the medi-sub in the grand final, and 209cm rugby union convert Lachlan McAndrew were named as two players Longmire could see breaking into the senior side in the early stages of the season."

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/sydney-swans/buddy-hell-swans-admit-star-wont-play-every-week-hasnt-trained-well-all-preseason/news-story/82335e0752857ebf71a0b8d17631c2f9

[stevoswan]

Mills had to play in his non preferred position in defence for many years which maybe similar for Campbell before getting back into the mids

This is exactly my point.

[stevoswan]

I feel for Logan trying to make his mark when Bud takes his leading lanes whenever he wants to.
And guys upfield seek Buddy out with Logan very much a secondary option.
As long as Bud has the skills and abiity, he'll continue to dominate wherever he wants, and so he should.
I seem to remember that Logan has played much better when Buddy is out.
Give him a forward line with free rein and I think we're going to get our eyes opened.

Good point....I may have been a bit harsh on young Logan. Must admit I was a tad disappointed (but not surprised) when Bud and the Swans announced one more year.....my mind went straight to Logan.

[stevoswan]

Neil was there any other stat of significance

Ie was Hayward, Paps, Heeney scoring more or less thru these games etc ? With or without Bud ?

May as well go the whole hog and compare out total team output with and without the Bud. I do seem to remember a few headlines over the past couple of seasons to the tune of "No Bud, no worries"....but I also remember a few games where the Bud has got us across the line too.

[Ludwig]

Last year I questioned our signing Buddy for another season. My arguments then and now are the same. Buddy may be one of the greatest players of all time, but he is now a disruption to team development. With Buddy in the side, we delay the way our team will function for the next decade.

When Buddy does play, he should be the sub. He should not play in the 22 ahead of Reid, Logan or Amartey. And I think we should only play 2 key forwards.

Longmire's recent comments about Buddy suggest that we may well move away from dependence on Buddy as the centrepiece of our attack. We will have to wait to unravel the typical Longmire vagueness on how he plans to play Buddy.

[dejavoodoo44]

It must be stats time again in 2023!

Of McDonald's 24 games, Franklin played in 20. In the 4 without Franklin, McDonald scored 10 goals (2.5 per game). In the 20 with Franklin, 14 goals (0.7 per game). For comparison Franklin's average in those 20 games is 2.35.

It's obviously skewed by the uneven numbers, and there are more factors at play in a game than the presence/absence of one player. But I think we can say McDonald has gone OK when he's been the main forward option.

Good, I often enjoy your stats, (with the possible exception of the ones, that suggest that I should be kinder to umpires).

[bloodspirit]

Last year I questioned our signing Buddy for another season. My arguments then and now are the same. Buddy may be one of the greatest players of all time, but he is now a disruption to team development. With Buddy in the side, we delay the way our team will function for the next decade.

When Buddy does play, he should be the sub. He should not play in the 22 ahead of Reid, Logan or Amartey. And I think we should only play 2 key forwards.

Longmire's recent comments about Buddy suggest that we may well move away from dependence on Buddy as the centrepiece of our attack. We will have to wait to unravel the typical Longmire vagueness on how he plans to play Buddy.

Far from disrupting the development of other players, I think Buddy enhances it. He has so much experience, so much to offer. And he's great at sharing what he knows. He's also a fantastic leader and often shows the way on the field in games. There have been many times Buddy has single handedly gotten us over the line (although fortunately not so many in recent times) and he knows what's required. I would think Logan would be thrilled to be able to play with Buddy and when his career is over he'll be grateful not just because of the fanboy thing but because it will have been a tremendous learning opportunity for him.

Nor do I think we need to worry about Buddy disrupting Reid's development opportunities. Reid has reached his peak and is no doubt also appreciative of what Buddy offers. Arguably Amartey and McLean may miss out on opportunities to play seniors and develop but while Bud is offering more and it is unclear what role they will have in our future, I have no problem with that.

As for whether we play two or three key forwards (I'm assuming you're including the second ruck as the third?), I think it's great to have options and both are legitimate.

[neilfws]

Neil was there any other stat of significance

Ie was Hayward, Paps, Heeney scoring more or less thru these games etc ? With or without Bud ?

All good questions - I haven't looked at any other combinations yet. It might be interesting to look at players who've played more games with/without each other.