2023 List Management

[Ludwig]

A couple of weeks back, liz made the astute observation that we were being outnumbered in the midfield because we were dropping back a midfielder to cover our deficiencies in defence, effectively being outnumbered at the contest. I don't know if adding more midfielders to our list is going to change that.

We've done well to address midfield issues by recruiting Grundy and Jordon. I don't think adding more midfield numbers to our list will change the dynamic on the ground. We will still be light in key defence. Additional experienced midfielders would undermine the development of players like Sheldrick, Roberts and the newly acquired James Jordon, as well as draw resources away from addressing our shortcomings in defence.

It's unfortunate that the supply-demand balance in AFL key defenders has not worked in our favour and we haven't been able to recruit an elite key defender this year. Joel Hamling wouldn't be the solution sought after to fill the void, but may be the best available of the leftovers.

We shouldn't just throw money at anything that moves because we didn't get everything we wanted this year. We may be better served by being patient and start targeting players for this time next year.

Looking to recruit established players would infer that we don't think much about how we stand in the draft this year and we are unlikely to be able to improve our draft position enough to give us access to players at the top end of the draft. I have already commented that I don't see much in this draft for us unless we can move up to a position that gives us a reasonable shot at O'Sullivan.

We can only go so far with recruitment. Some established players, like Heeney, will need to get back to top form, and a few of our younger players in the VFL will need to push their way to AFL level if we are to make a better showing in 2024.

[Nico]

Please NO on Adam’s ! We already have Parker declining, we don’t need another past his best and on the way down

I tend to agree. A couple of my Pies friends say that he is injury prone but also has poor disposal by foot. Sprays his kicks.

[Mark26]

Would anyone happen to know the length of Jordan's contract?

[Blood Fever]

I tend to agree. A couple of my Pies friends say that he is injury prone but also has poor disposal by foot. Sprays his kicks.

30 yo with one more year on contract. Interesting. Hard, contested player with mature body. Probably has only 2 years left in him.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Hearing we have chatted to swingman

Highlights: Nathan Kreuger

- - - Updated - - -

Collingwood welcomes Kreuger

Appears to be under contract 2024?

[waswan]

I wonder if the pies talk is linked to them wanted a 1st rounder for Grundy and offering another player to get it

[i'm-uninformed2]

A couple of weeks back, liz made the astute observation that we were being outnumbered in the midfield because we were dropping back a midfielder to cover our deficiencies in defence, effectively being outnumbered at the contest. I don't know if adding more midfielders to our list is going to change that.

We've done well to address midfield issues by recruiting Grundy and Jordon. I don't think adding more midfield numbers to our list will change the dynamic on the ground. We will still be light in key defence. Additional experienced midfielders would undermine the development of players like Sheldrick, Roberts and the newly acquired James Jordon, as well as draw resources away from addressing our shortcomings in defence.

It's unfortunate that the supply-demand balance in AFL key defenders has not worked in our favour and we haven't been able to recruit an elite key defender this year. Joel Hamling wouldn't be the solution sought after to fill the void, but may be the best available of the leftovers.

We shouldn't just throw money at anything that moves because we didn't get everything we wanted this year. We may be better served by being patient and start targeting players for this time next year.

Looking to recruit established players would infer that we don't think much about how we stand in the draft this year and we are unlikely to be able to improve our draft position enough to give us access to players at the top end of the draft. I have already commented that I don't see much in this draft for us unless we can move up to a position that gives us a reasonable shot at O'Sullivan.

We can only go so far with recruitment. Some established players, like Heeney, will need to get back to top form, and a few of our younger players in the VFL will need to push their way to AFL level if we are to make a better showing in 2024.

This is all very astute. There's a fine line between beefing up our list, smartly, and blowing our lines for the next three to five years.

Grundy fits the first category. He fills a clear need, comes at a discount, and has a good five years in him when you look at the usual profile of rucks. Jordon might not impress me 'that' much, but he's 22, comes from an elite system, has low cost and potential upside.

Adams worries me - not because he can't play. He's a clear contested ball warrior, but he's been injured - and often for a good stretch - in each of the past four years. I'd rather keep throwing games into the midfield that is going to give us a look at a flag for much of the next five or so years. Or if we're after more talent inside, go rip another 22yo, underplayed talent like Fin Macrae out of Collingwood. [And don't get me started on Hamling.]

As hard as it is for supporters, we need 'some' patience. Chad popped last year, Errol this year, Campbell will follow soon, Rowie's had two top 3 B&F finishes, Gus is coming along, etc. You've got Logan blossoming down front, Tom Mc is elite-adjacent down back, the Liz is a wiz. And we've still got a few good years out of Mills (I know, but'we're talking long-term here), Paps and Heeney. We're on the cusp of something special BUT it'll be a couple of years before they peak collectively.

And given we've clearly got some salary cap space, let's not waste it all this year. I'd rather have a shot at three flags over the next 7-8 years (which we could do if we get it right), than one next year.

[Blood Fever]

This is all very astute. There's a fine line between beefing up our list, smartly, and blowing our lines for the next three to five years.

Grundy fits the first category. He fills a clear need, comes at a discount, and has a good five years in him when you look at the usual profile of rucks. Jordon might not impress me 'that' much, but he's 22, comes from an elite system, has low cost and potential upside.

Adams worries me - not because he can't play. He's a clear contested ball warrior, but he's been injured - and often for a good stretch - in each of the past four years. I'd rather keep throwing games into the midfield that is going to give us a look at a flag for much of the next five or so years. Or if we're after more talent inside, go rip another 22yo, underplayed talent like Fin Macrae out of Collingwood. [And don't get me started on Hamling.]

As hard as it is for supporters, we need 'some' patience. Chad popped last year, Errol this year, Campbell will follow soon, Rowie's had two top 3 B&F finishes, Gus is coming along, etc. You've got Logan blossoming down front, Tom Mc is elite-adjacent down back, the Liz is a wiz. And we've still got a few good years out of Mills (I know, but'we're talking long-term here), Paps and Heeney. We're on the cusp of something special BUT it'll be a couple of years before they peak collectively.

And given we've clearly got some salary cap space, let's not waste it all this year. I'd rather have a shot at three flags over the next 7-8 years (which we could do if we get it right), then one next year.

You make some great points. Patience in short supply these days.

[BRS328]

Would be a problem if Grundy was a Collingwood player.
Melbourne is the club we have to deal with and bear in mind they only gave up a second round pick to Collingwood last year. A second round pick from the Swans will get it done.
All Collingwood have to do is continue to pay part of his contract for the next 4 years and they are legally bound to do this

[waswan]

Would be a problem if Grundy was a Collingwood player.
Melbourne is the club we have to deal with and bear in mind they only gave up a second round pick to Collingwood last year. A second round pick from the Swans will get it done.
All Collingwood have to do is continue to pay part of his contract for the next 4 years and they are legally bound to do this

Did think that as soon as I sent it

[giant]

Don't know a lot about Jordan but what I've seen I've liked - a real competitor with some good footy skills and some flexibility. Taking the #23/24 player from a top flight club with real squad depth was a winning strategy for us once upon a time (Bolton, Jolly, Richards, Mumford), let's hope it can do so again. More importantly, it's great that these in demand players are keen to make the move - we haven't seen that for some years. (FWIW there has been mentions on BF Pies board that Taylor Adams has asked to come to the Swans - strange if true).

I guess it was true but still strange. Has been a great player for the Pies but there seem more obvious targets for the "experienced midfield warrior" role.

[Roadrunner]

This is all very astute. There's a fine line between beefing up our list, smartly, and blowing our lines for the next three to five years.

Grundy fits the first category. He fills a clear need, comes at a discount, and has a good five years in him when you look at the usual profile of rucks. Jordon might not impress me 'that' much, but he's 22, comes from an elite system, has low cost and potential upside.

Adams worries me - not because he can't play. He's a clear contested ball warrior, but he's been injured - and often for a good stretch - in each of the past four years. I'd rather keep throwing games into the midfield that is going to give us a look at a flag for much of the next five or so years. Or if we're after more talent inside, go rip another 22yo, underplayed talent like Fin Macrae out of Collingwood. [And don't get me started on Hamling.]

As hard as it is for supporters, we need 'some' patience. Chad popped last year, Errol this year, Campbell will follow soon, Rowie's had two top 3 B&F finishes, Gus is coming along, etc. You've got Logan blossoming down front, Tom Mc is elite-adjacent down back, the Liz is a wiz. And we've still got a few good years out of Mills (I know, but'we're talking long-term here), Paps and Heeney. We're on the cusp of something special BUT it'll be a couple of years before they peak collectively.

And given we've clearly got some salary cap space, let's not waste it all this year. I'd rather have a shot at three flags over the next 7-8 years (which we could do if we get it right), than one next year.

Fully agreed-BUT there is a major problem down back now that Paddy has retired and we can’t rely on the Pelican fitness wise. I like Francis and think he can contribute but we really need an elite defender to partner Tommy. If we can’t trade one in, who do we have in the ressies who could step up? Arnold maybe, or convert Buller? If we can find a solution we could challenge in 2024 with Grundy our No.1 ruck with Mensa to help, if he can concentrate for a change. Also, let’s not forget Sammy, if he can stay fit for most of the season! Ideal defender as he wouldn’t have to have shots at goal!???? Too many ifs though…….

[Auntie.Gerald]

The best of Collingwood's BULLDOZER, Taylor Adams ???? - YouTube

I must say the thought of Patch Adams playing at the Swans in 2024 just makes a lot of sense

Just turned 30 late sept

2024 - 30yrs old
2025 - 31yrs old
2026 - 32yrs old

Age not a problem

Experience a massive tick

A very good player

His input output around the ball is exactly the style of player we need to solve part of our problems with contested footy.

He fits what we we need in a finals series trench warfare of which we lack right now

If we are looking at signing wicks for $300k or so pa vs Patch Adams for $450k pa over 3 years they are chalk and cheese and Taylor is a serious upgrade for not much difference.

Patch also plays inside mid as well as run with HFF / pocket

He is not a road block. If roberts or sheldrick can go past him in 2024 in ability they will be picked.

It’s a tick for me

Grundy, Adams, Jordon and maybe Dow is the type of sweeping changes that Geelong and pies and Brisbane have made to be in the top4

These 4 would have significant impact and not stuff up our next round of contracts 24/25

This would be a serious trajectory changer for us competing at the highest level in our 2024/25 window

Less than this we will be there about the top8

[BRS328]

You make some interesting points I’m informed, but I can see some short term value in a player like Taylor Adams because he brings some experience into a young and talented midfield, and with the exception of Parker the current group are very inexperienced in the scheme of things.
There is a perception that Collingwood is a very young team when in fact they were the third oldest team on record to win a premiership, with 8 players 30 years plus in the grand final, so they are in a position where they have to look at trading players like this.
The key to it is you would have to get him at the right price.
Having said all that the player I would look at is Hollands from the Gold Coast Suns.

[wolftone57]

It looks like we have interest in Taylor Adams. This would be a very good mids pick up. In his last game he tore them apart before getting injured.

Has a good record, metres gained, goal assists & is a goal kicker while resting.

Had his share of trouble off field early in his career. Assault in 2012 in a brawl outside a Geelong pub. In 2015 drunk in public after another brawl outside a Geelong pub. Sometimes when the boy is back in town, @@@@ goes down. But seems to have cleaned his act up since.

He is a quality mid.

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