2023 List Management

[Ludwig]

What’s the read on Owen? He was always a long term prospect.

Owen hasn't done much. It's hard to justify keeping a 4th ruckman after Grundy, Ladhams and McAndrew. How does he ever gets a game in the AFL?

Reid definitely stays as does Magor and Wicks (altho I'd axe him)

I thought we would retain either Reid or Gould. When it looked as though we might land Ben McKay or another younger KPP, I was preferring Reid. But now that we've recruited Hamling, it's looking more a choice of who should we keep as a 5th KPF after McDonald, Amartey, McLean and Buller. We also have our ruck situation resolved with Grundy. I don't think of Reid as a depth player, and it now looks like we have all the bases covered, so prefer a more speculative player to retain, like Gould. Both could stay or both could go. It just depends on the logic applied. I don't think there's a clear right call on this. On my list of players going out of the team, it gets very close starting with my 7th spot, where I now have Reid. I'm glad I don't have to make the call.

[Ludwig]

And for the life of me, I can't see why a number of people on this forum pump up Hall-Kahn's tyres. Even though at times the team have been decimated with injuries, I don't think the lad has ever been named an emergency for the seniors.

It's not Hall-Kahan types, but Hall-Kahan specifically. I think he was once named as an emergency. But that's beside the point. Myself and a few other ressie wathers have liked what he does. I watch nearly every VFL game. The commentators are often very impressed by his play. HHK has been most often played in a Will Hayward type role, where it is very difficult to make an impression, especially in such a poor VFL team like ours. When HHK has played in the midfield or back line, he's racked up possessions. But it's more that he presents like an AFL player in his decision making, field awareness and execution. His skills and athleticism are all at a high level. He has the kind of game that can easily fit in an AFL side in a number of positions.

St. Kilda were keen on him, but we got in first in the 2022 MSD. He had some serious injury, IIRC, which kept him out of most of the 2020 and 2021 seasons, but was tracking as a first round selection before that.

I also think your assessment of Gould is a bit harsh. Part of the blame lies with our coaches. Many ressie watchers were calling for him to be tried as a forward and even as a midfielder, when it was becoming apparent that he lacked the qualities needed to be a key defender. He is not at all slow, but does play short. He has a booming kick and an accurate one at that. He may well be delisted. No surprises there if it happens. But his good performances up forward late in the season showed we were slow to act on finding a position that better suited his abilities. I hope he gets the chance to play a full year at forward, but he more than likely won't hang on.

[The Big Cat]

Owen hasn't done much. It's hard to justify keeping a 4th ruckman after Grundy, Ladhams and McAndrew. How does he ever gets a game in the AFL?


I thought we would retain either Reid or Gould. When it looked as though we might land Ben McKay or another younger KPP, I was preferring Reid. But now that we've recruited Hamling, it's looking more a choice of who should we keep as a 5th KPF after McDonald, Amartey, McLean and Buller. We also have our ruck situation resolved with Grundy. I don't think of Reid as a depth player, and it now looks like we have all the bases covered, so prefer a more speculative player to retain, like Gould. Both could stay or both could go. It just depends on the logic applied. I don't think there's a clear right call on this. On my list of players going out of the team, it gets very close starting with my 7th spot, where I now have Reid. I'm glad I don't have to make the call.

I think if Reid is fit he’s in front of Amartey and Buller and probably McLean. I don’t think Gould is speculative any more. He’s had his chance.

[The Big Cat]

It's not Hall-Kahan types, but Hall-Kahan specifically.

Actually you’ll find I was talking about pumping up Hall-Kahan’s tyres, not types.

[Ludwig]

Actually you’ll find I was talking about pumping up Hall-Kahan’s tyres, not types.

I'll blame that one on my macular degeneration, but it doesn't really change what either one of us is saying.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Swans set to land premiership defender as unrestricted free agent

Seems like we've landed Hamling. We needed a replacement for the "fourth club" spot on the list.

Both 4th club, and both stop-gaps because we couldn't get a longer term solution. So I see the Hamling need. On the other hand . . .

It looks like we have interest in Taylor Adams. This would be a very good mids pick up. In his last game he tore them apart before getting injured.

Has a good record, metres gained, goal assists & is a goal kicker while resting.

Had his share of trouble off field early in his career. Assault in 2012 in a brawl outside a Geelong pub. In 2015 drunk in public after another brawl outside a Geelong pub. Sometimes when the boy is back in town, @@@@ goes down. But seems to have cleaned his act up since.

He is a quality mid.

Sheldrick won our rising star, and we've added James Jordon - so I can't see the need for any stop-gap reinforcement in our mids. Let alone Taylor Adams and his disposal issues.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Two draft picks might be all we see as value this season?

There doesn’t appear to be a lot of excitement outside the top10?

I’m also guessing given the youth of our team and a fair few really long term amazing young players in our best 22…….that we may even add 5 mature experienced players to achieve a report list with experience

Hamling
Jordon
Grundy
Dow
Adams or similar ?

We certainly have the $ as there is at least up to $3.5m pa that could leave via players de listed in 2023

We have so many also that I really don’t see being regular AFL players in 2024 and beyond

[BRS328]

Agree with you on Gould and Sam Reid.
My read on it is, assuming we get Taylor Adams that we will need to make 9 list changes to accommodate the money ball trades (Grundy, Adams, Jordan and Hamling), plus 3 draft picks with the pick 3 being used for Geary. That will mean 9 list changes once you allow for Buller and Arnold.
I know there is a lot of support for HHK, but while he shows he has talent he is yet to dominate a VFL game in the past 18 months, and there is a huge gap up to the next level, and for that reason I think he will go.
The interesting one will be a decision between Magor and Rankin

[KSAS]

If we do secure Adams & having done so with James Jordan, will be there a need for Dow? (St Kilda is his other interested club).

I see Angus as a Parker clone, who I think will play more minutes forward along with Papley. Jordan as a replacement for Stephens. Adams as the quality experienced midfielder we were seeking to add with our rotations. Roberts adds midfield depth & should also get his opportunities particularly during Mills' absence.

I see our potential perm mids as Mills (when fit), Adams, Chad & Angus plus Jordan v Roberts (Gulden & McInerney on the wings). Parker, Heeney & Papley to pinch hit in the midfield rotations. Also gives flexibility for Mils to play down back in break glass situations.

[BRS328]

A lot will depend on what we can extract from North in the Stephens trade. The feeling is the draft runs a little deeper this year and there is value deep into the teens, whereas last year it was a clear top 10 and little else. Only time will tell

[gloveski]

Two draft picks might be all we see as value this season?

There doesn’t appear to be a lot of excitement outside the top10?

I’m also guessing given the youth of our team and a fair few really long term amazing young players in our best 22…….that we may even add 5 mature experienced players to achieve a report list with experience

Hamling
Jordon
Grundy
Dow
Adams or similar ?

We certainly have the $ as there is at least up to $3.5m pa that could leave via players de listed in 2023

We have so many also that I really don’t see being regular AFL players in 2024 and beyond

Couldn’t see us adding Adams and Dow one or the other . I would prefer Dow simply for the age factor


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[rb4x]

Problem I see is Senior list spots. Fox, MacAndrew, Wicks and Sheather are all rookies who will need to be promoted to Senior List if retained. Think we need a clear out to make space. I expect Clarke, Sheather, Gould, Rankin. Hall-Kahan and Owen to be delisted. Brutal but necessary. Reid to be retained if medical is OK.

[Thunder Shaker]

I would prefer to get NM's end of 1st round pick for Stephens, instead of a pick in the current draft. It was good how we managed to preserve our draft picks by landing 2 free agents. We now have some flexibility. Hopefully we can pick-trade our way to a better draft position over the next 2 drafts.

A lot will depend on what we can extract from North in the Stephens trade. The feeling is the draft runs a little deeper this year and there is value deep into the teens, whereas last year it was a clear top 10 and little else. Only time will tell

It helps to examine what North Melbourne requires.

Stephens is not the only player seeking a trade to North Melbourne. Zac Fisher (Carlton) is also seeking a trade to North Melbourne, and Twomey assesses his value as "around a second round" pick. That's the consensus for the value of Stephens as well. North Melbourne holds pick 2, 14 and 19 in this year's draft but lacks a second-round pick.

It's possible that North Melbourne splits one of its later first-round picks for multiple selections in the second round so it can trade for both players. A possible trade could be picks 14 and 40 for 23 and Stephens (valuing Stephens as equivalent to pick 25).

I think it's more likely that North Melbourne will trade with another club for picks. Melbourne has five useful picks in the first two rounds and that will increase to six once they get a pick for Grundy. Picks 5, 13, 25, 33 and 39 (plus possibly pick 31 as well) will be of interest to North Melbourne. Pick 14 for 31 (Sydney currently holds that) and 33 would be a fair trade, as part of a larger trade.

A possible trade:
Grundy to Sydney and pick 31 to Melbourne, picks 31 and 33 to North Melbourne and pick 14 to Melbourne, pick 31 back to Sydney for Stephens, pick 33 to Carlton for Zac Fisher.
* North Melbourne gains Stephens and Fisher and loses pick 14.
* Sydney gains Grundy and loses Stephens.
* Melbourne gains pick 14 and loses Grundy and pick 33.
* Carlton gains pick 33 and loses Fisher.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Gulden caps sensational season with Bob Skilton Medal

Was Rowbottom signalling an adjustment to his role moving into 2024 “looking forward to some more uncontested possessions” ?

Hewett initially came I tagging and contested then was given more time with the ball

Rowbottom could be on a similar path with then next obvious player like Gus given the dog fight contested run with type role?

We tend to reward a development pathway with our mids.

[BRS328]

Completely agree with you on the players you have selected. It is never easy.