2023 List Management

[Roadrunner]

What is his "best position"?

And if it is clear what his "best position" is, is he better at it than other players in the squad who currently hold his "best position"?

If not, what is the benefit to the team of playing him in his "best position"?

His best position is outside mid, but he needs to be more creative when he gets the ball. He has speed and evasive skills to do well. Let’s give him a run of games before we decide to trade him.

[Markwebbos]

For me Stephens is covered on our wings despite being no5 pick on draft night and a knight in shining in midfield armour.

Corey Warner won’t be far behind as a development player but we have Campbell, McInerny, Florent, Cunningham and or Mitchell who can play wing at a pinch.

So I tend to look at Stephen’s and Gould as the most obvious opportunities to increase trade picks and use this currency for a role / player that contributes much more to our ability to win games.

I could be massively wrong but combined is it possible with say Adelaide that it might help us for picks to bring in a player that is more important to our structure?

It is possible Adelaide May do a good deal…..despite being somewhat cornered on the Dawso deal……..sort of as we could have paid overs to keep Dawso.

But if we truly believe Stephens can play inside and outside (like he did in SA) then he is valuable and we should keep him as they are hard to find and or develop.

As it stands we’ll get nothing for Gould and very little for Stephens, which may be all he’s worth

[wolftone57]

We still have an interest in Barass from West Coast and he would fit perfectly in CHB in our spine next season. His contract is up and maybe West Coast would take a couple of our 2024 picks as they will be building for the future.

Didn't he just sign a big deal? On big money?

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[wolftone57]

It's been a disappointing year. The development of Rowbottom, Campbell and Sheldrick has been positive. Otherwise it has been blighted by injuries and key players (Heeney, Papley, Hayward, Stephens) underperforming.

Anyway, I started thinking about how we're shaping up for next year and came up with the below.

Thoughts?

Best 22 2023 (before trading/draft):

FB: Rampe, T McCartin, Fox
HB: Blakey, Lloyd, Florent
C: Campbell, Rowbottom, Mills
HF: Gulden, Heeney, Papley
F: McDonald, Amartey, McLean/Reid
Fol: Chad Warner, Parker, Hickey/Ladhams
I/C: Sheldrick, Cunningham, Hayward, McInerney

Depth: Arnold, Buller, Corey Warner, Roberts, Francis, McAndrew, Sheather, Hall-Kahan (or delist).

Delisted: Wicks, Clarke, Melican, Rankin, Gould
Traded: Stephens
Retired: Franklin, P McCartin

Will develop: Mitchell, Edwards, Magor
Need to develop: Konstanty, Vickery, Owen

Trade priorities:
- Elite ruck
- Elite tall forward
- Elite small forward

Draft priorities:
- Elite mid with highest pick
- Tall defender
- Medium forward

Question marks:
- Can Reid return? If so, plays instead of McLean and improves the team.
- Will Hickey improve with a preseason or is this the start of the decline?

It's been a disappointing year. The development of Rowbottom, Campbell and Sheldrick has been positive. Otherwise it has been blighted by injuries and key players (Heeney, Papley, Hayward, Stephens) underperforming.

Anyway, I started thinking about how we're shaping up for next year and came up with the below.

Thoughts?

Best 22 2023 (before trading/draft):

FB: Rampe, T McCartin, Fox
HB: Blakey, Lloyd, Florent
C: Campbell, Rowbottom, Mills
HF: Gulden, Heeney, Papley
F: McDonald, Amartey, McLean/Reid
Fol: Chad Warner, Parker, Hickey/Ladhams
I/C: Sheldrick, Cunningham, Hayward, McInerney

Depth: Arnold, Buller, Corey Warner, Roberts, Francis, McAndrew, Sheather, Hall-Kahan (or delist).

Delisted: Wicks, Clarke, Melican, Rankin, Gould
Traded: Stephens
Retired: Franklin, P McCartin

Will develop: Mitchell, Edwards, Magor
Need to develop: Konstanty, Vickery, Owen

Trade priorities:
- Elite ruck
- Elite tall forward
- Elite small forward

Draft priorities:
- Elite mid with highest pick
- Tall defender
- Medium forward

Question marks:
- Can Reid return? If so, plays instead of McLean and improves the team.
- Will Hickey improve with a preseason or is this the start of the decline?

So you would delist Rankin who is probably one of the best VFL players we have and could still yet develop.

Reid is out the door. I doubt after another injury ridden season we will offer him another contract.

So you get rid of Gould & Melican leaving just two tall backs? Even if we get one more it is unders. I don't know if you have thought about this but Rampe is 34 next year. Cunningham is not far behind. Rampe is not going to be very effective playing against 200cm talls.

Parker and Fox are 31 & Hickey 34 next year

I think we will trade in Tom DeKoning.

As for an elite small forward. They are rare and most clubs keep the blokes they have. Rankin getting a free ride to Crows is just incredibly baffling. Who would you target that the club who has him is ready to part with him? Bolton? Rioli? We had our chance with Narkle and did not want him. He's turned out pretty good with Port. Rankin and Roshelle are a really strong team at Crows. Can't think of any others off the top of my head who really stand out and might be a chance

We have:

Amartey
McLean
McDonald
Buller
Resting ruck maybe as tall forwards. I think Amartey is just starting to show us why we persevered him. He was sensational on Friday night.

We need another running HB.
A specialist back pocket to replace Fox when he retires
Yes we still need another Key defender. If we trade then please not over 25

After watching Stephens as an inside mid in the reserves he needs a go at AFL level. He was pretty good this week. They were all ok. But just not fit enough. The fitness management this year has been really bad. I am not talking injuries. I am talking players cramping and running out of steam



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[Auntie.Gerald]

I’m a little more open Re Stephens value and how it maybe tied to his potential which could be a valuable addition to a less obvious combo of pick swaps than we may guess….

He is only 22yrs old and has played 40 Snr games

Ie

When we did the Hickey trade Tom had played 3 games through season 2020 and was a real journeyman and had only played an average of 9 games per season for 11 years prior to joining the Swans.

Sydney gave up picks 58,62 plus future picks 22 and 44.

West Coast gave us Tom and picks 34 and 60

That is still significant what we gave up

[waswan]

I’m a little more open Re Stephens value and how it maybe tied to his potential which could be a valuable addition to a less obvious combo of pick swaps than we may guess….

He is only 22yrs old and has played 40 Snr games

Ie

When we did the Hickey trade Tom had played 3 games through season 2020 and was a real journeyman and had only played an average of 9 games per season for 11 years prior to joining the Swans.

Sydney gave up picks 58,62 plus future picks 22 and 44.

West Coast gave us Tom and picks 34 and 60

That is still significant what we gave up

I want to keep Stephens for 2 reasons, i think he can come good and we wont get nothing for him.

West Coast had us over a barrel with Hickey cos we needed a ruck and there arent many going around

We basically moved an All Aus CHB + to get Ladhams in, thats the overs you have to do for a Ruck or Tall Key Position

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Zac Jones and a 3rd for a 2nd

Far more accomplished at the time

[Auntie.Gerald]

Completely agree “IF” Stephens is considered an imperative and improving player.

The reason I picked Hickey example was we could achieve the reverse potentially and effectively obtaining a pick 22 and pick 44 for a 34 and 60 plus a player which was obscene given his 3 games prior and injury riddled 9 game per season career. But Cox and KB no doubt saw something we didn’t know about.

I realise the examples you gave and also Dawson to some degree we had to do because of salary cap dumping leading into the next season and they were out going for long term security just as much as opportunity.

But there are teams under serious salary cap pressure leading into the next season due to spending a lot recently on trades etc

So I am not saying it is likely but it is possible to achieve beyond standard via trades that could optimise other positional opportunities. I mean the Hawks scenario last season was a “Phil Collins against all odds.

“ How can I just let you walk away?
Just let you leave without a trace”

Sorry I just had a 1984 moment lol ????

But given some supporters on this site and media are saying strongest draft in a decade or more end of this year.

Given we need currency to most likely bring in a couple of important trades in much more season significant roles then wing and we have wing covered via depth…….I am super open to what could be trade improvement and Stephens the former no5 draft pick with 40 games and only 22yrs of age could unlock what we need.

[waswan]

Paddy Dow Pick 3, 66 games
At best a trade for him would slide up 6-8 Spots in the 2nd Round

Teams could just walk Stephens to the PSD if they want him, out of contract and little risk of being grabbed by others.
If a team did grab him id say Stephens would be ok with it and happy to risk another landing spot

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Reckon he would be suited at North

[Auntie.Gerald]

They are great points Waswan

If the draft this season is as good as being reported and we want to seriously participate?

If we are loosing 50 goals per season via buddy

If Paddy Max doesn’t return?

If we need a tall forward of significance to replace the lost 50goals and be a genuine scoreboard pressure weapon?

If we need to replace Paddy Mac?

If we still in effect have (ie pre paid some players) the reported $600k plus pa that we were willing to use for Dawso so we can now use to our advantage?

If now we have Buddys $ to deploy?

If we have some of Paddy Macs contract in the cap due to retirement exemption?

Where do we find the trade and or draft currency we so need to become a better team that is seriously a top4 team?

Is there another player u sense that can trigger strong trade picks like GWS achieved with Taranto? Maybe Papley? Hence our recruitment of Konstanty which seemed a mysterious first pick in the draft?

Is there another pathway via free agency or the year before free agency?

Will we have to give away some of next years picks?

Are two of Reid, Amartey or McLean and or Buller going to become a 50 plus goal forward in 2024 season injury free and with great certainty?

[i'm-uninformed2]

People can debate the Hickey trade, but without him, we have no ruck to support our rise in 21, and he was critical in getting to the grand final, given Ladhams was on/off and then suspended.

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After watching Stephens as an inside mid in the reserves he needs a go at AFL level. He was pretty good this week. They were all ok. But just not fit enough. The fitness management this year has been really bad. I am not talking injuries. I am talking players cramping and running out of steam



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100 percent re this. Our power running - a feature of the best sides, and ours last year - has been poor. I remember the late season match against the Pies last year, when we came up against apparently the best power running side in the comp, and smashed them at it. I'm not sure what happened preseason, but something went wrong. I hope the club does a broader review of what happened this year, as I think it will as it is a mature, well run club, but that needs to be part of it.

[waswan]

On fitness and running games out

If Sheldrick is in the mids and only playing 55% game time that burdens gets worn elsewhere.

So Sheldrick has to get fitter, being young that isnt an issue but that will help others not having to play extra

[waswan]

People can debate the Hickey trade, but without him, we have no ruck to support our rise in 21, and he was critical in getting to the grand final, given Ladhams was on/off and then suspended.

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100 percent re this. Our power running - a feature of the best sides, and ours last year - has been poor. I remember the late season match against the Pies last year, when we came up against apparently the best power running side in the comp, and smashed them at it. I'm not sure what happened preseason, but something went wrong. I hope the club does a broader review of what happened this year, as I think it will as it is a mature, well run club, but that needs to be part of it.

100% for the Hickey trade and his worth at the time.

Just highlighting how you can pay overs for needs like a ruck but 30 possession VFL mids are a dime a dozen in terms of draft capital regardless of where they were drafted

[Scottee]

Paddy Dow Pick 3, 66 games
At best a trade for him would slide up 6-8 Spots in the 2nd Round

Teams could just walk Stephens to the PSD if they want him, out of contract and little risk of being grabbed by others.
If a team did grab him id say Stephens would be ok with it and happy to risk another landing spot

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Reckon he would be suited at North

The way we are going we will be the ones walking players to the pre season draft.

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[Ludwig]

On fitness and running games out

If Sheldrick is in the mids and only playing 55% game time that burdens gets worn elsewhere.

So Sheldrick has to get fitter, being young that isnt an issue but that will help others not having to play extra

Low game time percentage is not always an indication of lack of fitness. In close games, we tend to play our more experienced players over the younger ones. Let's see how it goes with a bigger sample size.

[waswan]

Low game time percentage is not always an indication of lack of fitness. In close games, we tend to play our more experienced players over the younger ones. Let's see how it goes with a bigger sample size.

Very keen to see more of Sheldrick if thats what he is producing in limited time. He was basically 60% playing time of all the others

If its not fitness other players and coaches should be telling him to stay on, he was the main reason we got back in it during the 3rd