2023 List Management

[AB Swannie]

AB is that approach to the problem of us not winning a GF or being in the top4 in 2023, because you feel quite certain that our depth midfield and emerging midfield is the answer? and or current mids can make a massive change vs the competition?

Ie can our mids be the comps best contested team in the comp - which is what Horse has banged on about and caught on video footage as an area of improvement he challenged our squad in the pre season with ?

Horse himself is saying we are way off track in this area if we want to dominate and be a serious GF team.

For me I err on the side of we need a better solution than what we have right now for our contested footy.

I have a bit of faith in our young midfield, particularly if we can get Grundy as a more dominant ruck. We have a way to go but we made it to a GF with the midfield we have. Of course, we would be better if we had an Oliver or a Neale in our team but all of the likely candidates to trade in are no better than the ones we already have. If Paddy Dow gets traded in, is he really going to increase our contested ball if he was to replace Rowbottom? Fact is, we either need to stick with a pretty promising young midfield or we need to do some major renovations that would involve trading out/losing some of the players I’ve listed in the mid 9.

[Smith]

Why is pick 39 not enough if Stephens is wanting to go, given North can pick him up in the Preseason Draft if we don’t agree to terms? I think we would be extremely lucky to get 39.

I just think it’s unders for the player he is. 4 years in the system, a required player, he’s absolutely shown promise, future is of course questionable given he hasn’t quite cracked it. Pick 39 will be pick 45+ at least by the time we use it. Lottery to get a player of his ability at that level, and certainly unlikely to get one that impacts any time soon.

The preseason draft is of course there, but it’s rarely used. Most professionals negotiate in good faith.

We may need to settle for it, but it’s unders.

[Auntie.Gerald]

I agree and disagree respectfully

Agree that we are not far off with what we have but there are few big IFs

Disagree that our current squad is good enough to dominate and be a top4 at contested footy and for me we need 3 areas levelled up to be a serious weapon in the top4 in 2024. Two we appear to working on in the media ie Grundy and McKay.

Case in point Carlton game and going with a run with slash tagging strategy to minimise Carltons impact at the contest. Even sacrificing Mills and Heeney was an opportunity cost with minimal compelling footy from them to dominate and impact our attack.

That just @@@@s me

That is a head wind of concern that we are not even at Carltons level, who I don’t rate that highly vs the top 3 or 4 teams in 2023.

Maybe Grundy playing for us in that game changes it to our favour…yes it would have helped ….…but I think that is a stretch and we need depth to dominate that contested footy via our mids also…. so we have much more flexibility in dictating terms and making it very hard to contain us.

McKay would definitely have helped Carlton sending it in quick to lock us in. So yes Grundy and McKay would definitely be an advantage but with Parker turning 31yrs old and key ingrendet to our mids I think we need more depth at contested footy in the mids

It might not the earth to make that happen for 2024

[AB Swannie]

It’s a fair discussion. We are definitely behind in contested footy. The question I have is who do you sacrifice from my best 22?

[Dow]

I would also add how many players would be happy to be traded in just to be depth ? Probably not ones that improve you 22 dramatically - but as always you have given me food for thought

[i'm-uninformed2]

So if Stephen’s moves to North and we receive pick 39

If Grundy moves to the swans and we give up say pick 30 due to us taking over his $

If North get a good deal from the AFL as a compensation pick 1st round for Mackay and Mackay decides to move to Sydney

We would still have most likely the following picks

11, 22, 39, 41,49

Picks 39,41,49 bundled together if a club needs them for academy/ father son etc is equivalent to pick 15 in points

To have 3 draft picks between pick 11 and 22ish would be amazing……. if possible ….. big if

Plus Grundy and Mackay make an immediate impact in two critical areas to improve for a top4 in 2024 challenge.

Have we answered out contested footy woes though ?

Could we be looking at a value inside mid 24ish year of age that wants to leave and head to Sydney ? And we give up something in return?

I like the bundling approach, but if I’ve got 15 I’m not swapping it for some back of draft picks, regardless of points value.

I wonder if an alternative approach is to speak to Geelong. They have pick 7 currently, then 80 something. They’ll likely get something in the 30s for Rategolea, but that’s not much of a draft hand. Would they be keen on swapping 7 for 11, and another pick around 30. The higher the better.

[Ludwig]

Buku Kamis, out of contract Footscray NGA is an interesting name I mentioned before. He kicked 41 goals for their VFL side but Gerard Healey, in his radio program discussion with Cornes, reckons he has great potential as an intercept backman, where he has played well. Tall, athletic and skilled young talent who is finding it hard to break into Dogs side, which is amazing given that they didn't make the 8. Plenty of upside and sort of like Allir Allir.

I'm a big fan of Buku. He played a great game against us in VFL round 17, kicking 4 impressive goals. He would be an excitement machine playing either forward or as a rebounding HB. The only thing is that he probably wants some playing time and we don't have an obvious spot for him.

One thing Khamis might give us is a way to get past our kPD deficiency without Harry McKay, by allowing McLean to switch to KPD. The more I see McLean play, the more I'm convinced he could do it.

If we got Buku, my strategy going into the draft would be:

1. to trade in Grundy, who looks the best solution to a better stoppage performance.
2. Do what we can to get Geelon's pick 7, hoping that picks 11 and 22 do the job. Use this pick to get O'Sulivan or the next best KPD in the draft.
3. Trade out our remaining draft picks into 2024, except for a couple of picks in the 50s which we will use to draft Caiden Cleary.
4. Stephens traded out. Pick 39 very reasonable.
5. Delist Owen and Clarke.
6. That should get us to 42 on the list.
7. If it comes down to dropping either Gould or Reid, I would drop Reid. I liked what Gould did up forward toward the end of the season and don't see the need for another depth player. If we wanted McKay as well, then Reid would be the delist. I don't watch many NM games, so haven't seen enough of McKay to make a fair judgment on him. His size alone would make you think he would be a valuable addition, but we may have other options that could work out just as well if not better.
8. Rankin would be the next possible delisting, but he plays with passion and energy, so would love to give him another year He could be a very good lockdown defender.
9. If Sheather is expected to have a complete recovery, I would like to retain him on the list. I think he's a cat B rookie, so delisting him would only open a spot for an academy player.
10. Let's drop the talk about adding another inside mid. We will have enough running around in the VFL next year without adding more. Our cup runneth over. They just need to up their gamea.

[Blood Fever]

You make a number of excellent points except I'll be shocked if Gould survives and please leave McLean where he is...one of our most accurate kicks and would be lead a merry dance as a KPD.

[Mel_C]

The question to consider is what would Adrian Dodoro ask for?

And do the opposite??

[i'm-uninformed2]

I'm a big fan of Buku. He played a great game against us in VFL round 17, kicking 4 impressive goals. He would be an excitement machine playing either forward or as a rebounding HB. The only thing is that he probably wants some playing time and we don't have an obvious spot for him.

One thing Khamis might give us is a way to get past our kPD deficiency without Harry McKay, by allowing McLean to switch to KPD. The more I see McLean play, the more I'm convinced he could do it.

If we got Buku, my strategy going into the draft would be:

1. to trade in Grundy, who looks the best solution to a better stoppage performance.
2. Do what we can to get Geelon's pick 7, hoping that picks 11 and 22 do the job. Use this pick to get O'Sulivan or the next best KPD in the draft.
3. Trade out our remaining draft picks into 2024, except for a couple of picks in the 50s which we will use to draft Caiden Cleary.
4. Stephens traded out. Pick 39 very reasonable.
5. Delist Owen and Clarke.
6. That should get us to 42 on the list.
7. If it comes down to dropping either Gould or Reid, I would drop Reid. I liked what Gould did up forward toward the end of the season and don't see the need for another depth player. If we wanted McKay as well, then Reid would be the delist. I don't watch many NM games, so haven't seen enough of McKay to make a fair judgment on him. His size alone would make you think he would be a valuable addition, but we may have other options that could work out just as well if not better.
8. Rankin would be the next possible delisting, but he plays with passion and energy, so would love to give him another year He could be a very good lockdown defender.
9. If Sheather is expected to have a complete recovery, I would like to retain him on the list. I think he's a cat B rookie, so delisting him would only open a spot for an academy player.
10. Let's drop the talk about adding another inside mid. We will have enough running around in the VFL next year without adding more. Our cup runneth over. They just need to up their gamea.

Agree with much of the top end of this post and like what I’ve seen from Buku too. (Don’t watch quite enough reserves to have a firm view on some of the latter names).

I’d personally be keen to keep McLean forward, as we don’t have a lot of mark clunkers forward of centre and he’s about the best right now.

But I could find a spot for Buku - Heeney’s forward role. I’d like to see Heeney spend more time on ball, as I agree with Auntie G: we need to be more proactive at the contest, and using Mills and Heeney as bigger bodies and clean hands in there gives us real oomph. As you say, Buku also has real potential down back and I think Gerard Healy has been strong on this. The thought of him and Blakey bouncing off halfback is tantalising.

While I’m less enthusiastic on Gould, I do agree it’s sadly time for Sam. He’s just not going to be part of our next premiership side, so it’s time to move on.

[stevoswan]

The worst part isnt Serong going on the be a star its Serong was a mad Swans Supporter

Totally agree....that bit just rubs salt into the wound....and makes the Stephens pick even more of a head scratcher.

[Auntie.Gerald]

It’s a fair discussion. We are definitely behind in contested footy. The question I have is who do you sacrifice from my best 22?

AB I think it is fair question but part of a bigger question

Do we seriously have a deep enough squad of contested warriors to turn the tables and be that too contested team.

We are smart in how we shape games to our advantage and so so defence.

We are very good at capturing the ball in areas that we are well above average to sling shot back the other way.

We were so so in front of goal this year which is a concern.

We were very so so in the ruck contested footy part of our game.

We definitely have an emerging hunter of the ball in sheldrick but it is very tricky to say he will dominant games in his 3rd year and make the significant difference required.

I really think that if we have presented Stephen’s with a decent contract that we feel we need more midfield depth. For me that means let’s get another mid but let’s tweak that mid towards the inside role.

There are some value mids that exist but the challenge is getting them here.

[barry]

Hope we are still chasing Tom de Koning.
Playing a blinder

[Blood Fever]

Re-signed with Carlton some months ago

[barry]

Re-signed with Carlton some months ago

So your saying we'll have to do a trade, like Stephens to carlton?