2024 List Management

[crackedactor 01]

Does it really matter who we draft if all they are going to do is spend a few years in the system, training and whatnot, taking up space
in the gym and the car park, just so they can get to the GF and promptly take the afternoon off. Sorry, still smarting about our latest MCG
debacle.

I feel your pain. Still cannot understand how you play in the most important game of the year with half the world watching and you decide not to run hard, not to tackle hard, not to chase or bump hard. What thoughts are going through their heads?

[Roadrunner]

That pain will linger on, unfortunately.
The only explanation I can come up with is a mental drop- off, but even that doesn’t explain the points you mention. It looked like our VFL team wearing our seniors’ numbers- they were so meek and mild and constantly out of position. The question now is: how to rectify the mental damage? The players seem comfortable enough earning the big bucks and rely on a few in each game to get us over the line. That will never work in a GF where you need the whole team to perform and there’s no room for passengers. So from the 22 who played, can we find more than around 6 who tried their hardest and gave their all? We could handle losing the game if they all tried and played their hearts out but got beaten by a better, more talented team. But the season proved we had the talent and the fitness to go the distance. It also proved we can’t concentrate for 4 quarters and Brisbane could. Why that is the case is what the coaches and players have to think about and solve over the summer if this team is to challenge in the big one, otherwise we will only be also rans.

Regarding draft picks: we haven’t been very successful with early picks, so maybe we need to re- focus on our selection criteria. A mistake like taking Stephens ahead of Serong is very difficult to understand, and not just by hindsight- there were plenty on here who called it at the time. In our current team I think we only have 2 players who were early picks, apart from our Academy boys- please correct me if I’m wrong! Logan and Millsy.

[imuninformedtwo]

A shame about McAndrew, as he had clear talents as an actual tap ruck. But there clearly wasn't sufficient development in the rest of his game to justify his spot on a tight list.

[MattW]

That pain will linger on, unfortunately.
The only explanation I can come up with is a mental drop- off, but even that doesn’t explain the points you mention. It looked like our VFL team wearing our seniors’ numbers- they were so meek and mild and constantly out of position. The question now is: how to rectify the mental damage? The players seem comfortable enough earning the big bucks and rely on a few in each game to get us over the line. That will never work in a GF where you need the whole team to perform and there’s no room for passengers. So from the 22 who played, can we find more than around 6 who tried their hardest and gave their all? We could handle losing the game if they all tried and played their hearts out but got beaten by a better, more talented team. But the season proved we had the talent and the fitness to go the distance. It also proved we can’t concentrate for 4 quarters and Brisbane could. Why that is the case is what the coaches and players have to think about and solve over the summer if this team is to challenge in the big one, otherwise we will only be also rans.

Regarding draft picks: we haven’t been very successful with early picks, so maybe we need to re- focus on our selection criteria. A mistake like taking Stephens ahead of Serong is very difficult to understand, and not just by hindsight- there were plenty on here who called it at the time. In our current team I think we only have 2 players who were early picks, apart from our Academy boys- please correct me if I’m wrong! Logan and Millsy.

Concerningly, none of the interviews or speeches that have since been given by players or coach have given any plausible explanation of what occurred and why, nor flat acknowledgement that we've choked again and it needs to be fixed. I really like John, but I was a bit disappointed with his post game press conference and address at the best and fairest.

Re above, Kinnear has acknowledged he completely stuffed the Serong pick. We have a new list manager this year in Keane - maybe a different approach to the draft?

[UUaswan]

DGB delisted, id grab him

[Roadrunner]

Concerningly, none of the interviews or speeches that have since been given by players or coach have given any plausible explanation of what occurred and why, nor flat acknowledgement that we've choked again and it needs to be fixed. I really like John, but I was a bit disappointed with his post game press conference and address at the best and fairest.

Re above, Kinnear has acknowledged he completely stuffed the Serong pick. We have a new list manager this year in Keane - maybe a different approach to the draft?

John’s post game presser was understandable as he looked shattered, but by the time of the B&F, I agree Matt he could have insisted that we fix this. Sure, you’re going to have ebb and flow during a big game and momentum swings but players who have played 50+ games surely can concentrate for 120 minutes! For a start, our 1st quarter performances have been consistently sub par meaning we then had to chase the game and expend more energy. Sometimes it worked but in the GF it clearly didn’t- even though the score line didn’t reflect it, we were hugely outplayed in that 1st quarter and our confidence just melted. Why we couldn’t apply pressure on the ball is a mystery. Our boys need to ask themselves why that happened on the day that mattered the most, and why in other games they go missing in the 1st. It’s between the ears, I think.

[111431]

John’s post game presser was understandable as he looked shattered, but by the time of the B&F, I agree Matt he could have insisted that we fix this. Sure, you’re going to have ebb and flow during a big game and momentum swings but players who have played 50+ games surely can concentrate for 120 minutes! For a start, our 1st quarter performances have been consistently sub par meaning we then had to chase the game and expend more energy. Sometimes it worked but in the GF it clearly didn’t- even though the score line didn’t reflect it, we were hugely outplayed in that 1st quarter and our confidence just melted. Why we couldn’t apply pressure on the ball is a mystery. Our boys need to ask themselves why that happened on the day that mattered the most, and why in other games they go missing in the 1st. It’s between the ears, I think.

There was a good article in last weekend’s Age which discussed how we would manage the psychological scars. A couple of good observations from Big Tommy Hickey about how Horse hates to lose and his mindset to addressing it. also Andrew Pridham discussed the analytical approach they would take.

it’s not our style to air our dirty linen . I’m pretty sure the pressure will be on big time for a thorough review of all aspects and nothing will be off the table. As much as I admire Horse, I’m sure he and Leon will feel a fair bit of heat. I hope this time next year we understand it

[liz]

John’s post game presser was understandable as he looked shattered, but by the time of the B&F, I agree Matt he could have insisted that we fix this. Sure, you’re going to have ebb and flow during a big game and momentum swings but players who have played 50+ games surely can concentrate for 120 minutes! For a start, our 1st quarter performances have been consistently sub par meaning we then had to chase the game and expend more energy. Sometimes it worked but in the GF it clearly didn’t- even though the score line didn’t reflect it, we were hugely outplayed in that 1st quarter and our confidence just melted. Why we couldn’t apply pressure on the ball is a mystery. Our boys need to ask themselves why that happened on the day that mattered the most, and why in other games they go missing in the 1st. It’s between the ears, I think.

Longmire did address it at the B&F dinner, explicitly saying he didn't know why they capitulated so easily. There was at least an implicit 'yet' in there. (Maybe I'd find it was explicit if I went back and listened to his speech again.)

[Maltopia]

You can't compare Green to the other two. Green is still a kid learning his trade.

We are just training Green until he becomes a top liner for another team in exchange for a pick in the late 30s, a la Nankervis, Aliir Aliir and Cameron…

[crackedactor 01]

John’s post game presser was understandable as he looked shattered, but by the time of the B&F, I agree Matt he could have insisted that we fix this. Sure, you’re going to have ebb and flow during a big game and momentum swings but players who have played 50+ games surely can concentrate for 120 minutes! For a start, our 1st quarter performances have been consistently sub par meaning we then had to chase the game and expend more energy. Sometimes it worked but in the GF it clearly didn’t- even though the score line didn’t reflect it, we were hugely outplayed in that 1st quarter and our confidence just melted. Why we couldn’t apply pressure on the ball is a mystery. Our boys need to ask themselves why that happened on the day that mattered the most, and why in other games they go missing in the 1st. It’s between the ears, I think.

What got me about that selection was that Serong was already a keen Swans supporter at the time.

[KSAS]

KB mentioned in his interview on the True Bloods podcsst earlier this season that they had from the outset planned to select Serong, but somehow they managed to talk themselves out of it & ended up taking Stephens. It still hurts him to this day. along with how Darcy Cameron & Allir blossomed elsewhere.

IIRC Serong was in the room after that famous win against St Kilda, celebrating Buddy's 300th & retirements of Kieran Jack & Jarryd McVeigh, which stings further in hindsight.


Edit: link to that KB interview on True Bloods:

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/true-bloods-2024-the-kinnear-beatson-interview/id1362307235?i=1000657071731

[KSAS]

Pies have 9 playes aged 32yo+ on their list, headed by 37yo Pendlebury. They think their list is good enough for another flag & did well to recruit Houstan with the hand they began with.

Not sure if they have any young talent pushing for selection who are not getting games, compared to us whereby 32yo Parker thought his place looked shaky with the emerging Sheldrick. Cleary & Co Warner, despite playing in GF & kicking 3 goals!

Pies appear to be following the Geelong model and hoping to defy big fall, by using their big draw power to keep topping up list. It didn't work ultimately for Hawthorn under Clarkson.

[liz]

Pies have 9 playes aged 32yo+ on their list, headed by 37yo Pendlebury. They think their list is good enough for another flag & did well to recruit Houstan with the hand they began with.

Not sure if they have any young talent pushing for selection who are not getting games, compared to us whereby 32yo Parker thought his place looked shaky with the emerging Sheldrick. Cleary & Co Warner, despite playing in GF & kicking 3 goals!

Pies appear to be following the Geelong model and hoping to defy big fall, by using their big draw power to keep topping up list. It didn't work ultimately for Hawthorn under Clarkson.

Richmond tried to defy gravity by adding Taranto and Hopper (and giving up two years' worth of top draft capital in the process). Look where that got them.

I suspect Collingwood are kidding themselves. One of the reasons Daicos broke the previous record for Brownlow votes and won the AFLCA Player of the Year award was because he had literally no-one competing with him for votes when the Pies played well. But the best of the supporting cast below him included the likes of Howe, Pendlebury and Sidebottom. Ruckmen often keep going at a high level into their mid-30s, so Cameron could have a few more years of very good football left in him, but Mihocek and Elliott are showing signs of their age (and injury history) catching up with them.

[The Big Cat]

I notice that we had a couple of academy players make the U16 All Australian Team. One was a winger and the other a 190 cm full forward called Aidan McCartney. Unfortunately he's the son of Jason McCartney and is also eligible for Norf under the Father/Son rule. I hope his old man stays at the Giants for a few years so Aiden feels like a Sydney boy. Very similar circumstances to The Lizard, although the Blakeys had been in Sydney since the early Roos years and Nick probably saw himself as Sydney through and through and would have been hanging around the Swans rooms most of his life, even as a little tacker.

[UUaswan]

That pain will linger on, unfortunately.
The only explanation I can come up with is a mental drop- off, but even that doesn’t explain the points you mention. It looked like our VFL team wearing our seniors’ numbers- they were so meek and mild and constantly out of position. The question now is: how to rectify the mental damage? The players seem comfortable enough earning the big bucks and rely on a few in each game to get us over the line. That will never work in a GF where you need the whole team to perform and there’s no room for passengers. So from the 22 who played, can we find more than around 6 who tried their hardest and gave their all? We could handle losing the game if they all tried and played their hearts out but got beaten by a better, more talented team. But the season proved we had the talent and the fitness to go the distance. It also proved we can’t concentrate for 4 quarters and Brisbane could. Why that is the case is what the coaches and players have to think about and solve over the summer if this team is to challenge in the big one, otherwise we will only be also rans.

Regarding draft picks: we haven’t been very successful with early picks, so maybe we need to re- focus on our selection criteria. A mistake like taking Stephens ahead of Serong is very difficult to understand, and not just by hindsight- there were plenty on here who called it at the time. In our current team I think we only have 2 players who were early picks, apart from our Academy boys- please correct me if I’m wrong! Logan and Millsy.

Good articles out atm about Sydney's poor high selections.
I'd suggest it's probably not too different from alot of other teams but it's good that the heat is on when we have a few picks to use.

Be good to draft someone that slots into a 22 before their 3rd year