2017 trading, drafting, list management

[Ludwig]

Key Defender is the easiest position to fill, although great ones, like Rance, don't come along often. I don't think there are any of that caliber in this draft, but there are many that look serviceable that can be had in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Aliir may not be able to overcome his flaws, but if he does, he will be a very handy tall utility with some real x-factor. I don't think you trade away those sort of players.

Like most of us, I'm disappointed in Gary Rohan failing to live up to his potential, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel with him yet. Surely the coaching staff know that we have to find a way to get more out of him for longer periods of time and will be working on that in the off season. Let's revisit this, same time next year.

[Boddo]

I think they would as they desperately need some pace & a medium forward. It's why they are linked to Fasolo

Eagles could trade for contracted Pies forward - M.afl.com.au

I would think they believe they could turn him around. But I think they'd also ask for our 2nd rounder or another player. That's why I'd say no. I agree he has not had a pre-season to think of but it's not the issue. His biggest deficiency being his mental capacity to handle the pressure of a big game.

You can have the best pre season any player has had in the game but if you can't fix that you have a failed player because it's no use being a contributor in the H & A season but a passenger in the big games.

[liz]

I think they would as they desperately need some pace & a medium forward. It's why they are linked to Fasolo

Eagles could trade for contracted Pies forward - M.afl.com.au

I would think they believe they could turn him around. But I think they'd also ask for our 2nd rounder or another player. That's why I'd say no. I agree he has not had a pre-season to think of but it's not the issue. His biggest deficiency being his mental capacity to handle the pressure of a big game.

You can have the best pre season any player has had in the game but if you can't fix that you have a failed player because it's no use being a contributor in the H & A season but a passenger in the big games.

I don't understand how people make that assessment of Rohan. The evidence cited is generally games where the whole team has been dysfunctional - like the 2014 GF, the 2017 SF, and to a slightly lesser extent, the 2016 GF. Forwards are always going to struggle when the midfield is being beaten and I am bewildered as to why Rohan is being singled out for his performances in those games over and above the players at the coal face.

If people can point to games where most of the team held its own but there were a couple of key moments involving Rohan where he fumbled, made a poor decision or failed to execute a basic skill, I could understand the argument. But I've seen none of that evidence presented.

Another possible criticism of Rohan is that when many of the main coal-face players are below their best, he's not able to step up and provide an alternative option. I accept that the evidence supports that, but this is where his relative lack of fitness probably comes into play. He isn't capable of the same repeat efforts of, say, an Isaac Smith (with whom he shares many surface attributes) because he doesn't have the fitness base. (Even with a couple of pre-seasons under his belt he probably wouldn't be able to emulate Smith, who I think is naturally a very good endurance player, but he might be able to play a more wide ranging game.)

[Boddo]

Key Defender is the easiest position to fill, although great ones, like Rance, don't come along often. I don't think there are any of that caliber in this draft, but there are many that look serviceable that can be had in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Aliir may not be able to overcome his flaws, but if he does, he will be a very handy tall utility with some real x-factor. I don't think you trade away those sort of players.

Like most of us, I'm disappointed in Gary Rohan failing to live up to his potential, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel with him yet. Surely the coaching staff know that we have to find a way to get more out of him for longer periods of time and will be working on that in the off season. Let's revisit this, same time next year.

Taylor or Clavarino I wouldn't expect to turn out the quality of Rance but I wouldn't rule out Naughton turning out a very very good key back. Has all the attributes of a key back that can rebound very well. Has been likened to Rance by a few which I agree with.

I've put it out there just as a discussion due to the Eagles stating they're prepared to trade their first which clubs don't do regularly.

I have a lot more faith in Aliir turning into a good rebounding player than Rohan turning his mental issues around. I don't believe Aliir will be the key piece to our side but I think if he can recapture some of his rebounding game, tighten up his disposal & work on his one on one he'll be a good contributor.

[Boddo]

I don't understand how people make that assessment of Rohan. The evidence cited is generally games where the whole team has been dysfunctional - like the 2014 GF, the 2017 SF, and to a slightly lesser extent, the 2016 GF. Forwards are always going to struggle when the midfield is being beaten and I am bewildered as to why Rohan is being singled out for his performances in those games over and above the players at the coal face.

If people can point to games where most of the team held its own but there were a couple of key moments involving Rohan where he fumbled, made a poor decision or failed to execute a basic skill, I could understand the argument. But I've seen none of that evidence presented.

Another possible criticism of Rohan is that when many of the main coal-face players are below their best, he's not able to step up and provide an alternative option. I accept that the evidence supports that, but this is where his relative lack of fitness probably comes into play. He isn't capable of the same repeat efforts of, say, an Isaac Smith (with whom he shares many surface attributes) because he doesn't have the fitness base. (Even with a couple of pre-seasons under his belt he probably wouldn't be able to emulate Smith, who I think is naturally a very good endurance player, but he might be able to play a more wide ranging game.)

People call it down hill skiing. He hasn't mentally been able to lift unless the side is performing. He has to make his own game. He's failed on the big stage regularly in finals. I'm not here like a lot of others to bag him n blame him for everything but he has failed. You have to call a spade a spade. Supporters of all clubs can see it.

It's not impossible for him to turn it around, look at Cotchin this year. But it's going to be even harder now as clubs have seen his performance in big games and will target him. For the sides and his sake I hope he does fix these issues but I'm not going to pretend it's not a problem.

[Blood Fever]

I don't understand how people make that assessment of Rohan. The evidence cited is generally games where the whole team has been dysfunctional - like the 2014 GF, the 2017 SF, and to a slightly lesser extent, the 2016 GF. Forwards are always going to struggle when the midfield is being beaten and I am bewildered as to why Rohan is being singled out for his performances in those games over and above the players at the coal face.

If people can point to games where most of the team held its own but there were a couple of key moments involving Rohan where he fumbled, made a poor decision or failed to execute a basic skill, I could understand the argument. But I've seen none of that evidence presented.

Another possible criticism of Rohan is that when many of the main coal-face players are below their best, he's not able to step up and provide an alternative option. I accept that the evidence supports that, but this is where his relative lack of fitness probably comes into play. He isn't capable of the same repeat efforts of, say, an Isaac Smith (with whom he shares many surface attributes) because he doesn't have the fitness base. (Even with a couple of pre-seasons under his belt he probably wouldn't be able to emulate Smith, who I think is naturally a very good endurance player, but he might be able to play a more wide ranging game.)

I know I've said this before but in our recent final defeats, can somebody please tell me which forward played well except for Buddy in 2014 GF? I could name a host of players, including Rohan. Still required and valuable.

- - - Updated - - -

I know I've said this before but in our recent final defeats, can somebody please tell me which forward played well except for Buddy in 2014 GF? I could name a host of players, including Rohan. Still required and valuable.

Meant a host of players who didn't play well.

[Hotpotato]

Must be such a stressful time for fringe players.
It's a precarious vocation for them.

[barry]

I'd take pick 13 for rohan. But I think we'd be looking for an established player.
A Rohan/Motlop trade might have been on the cards a few weeks ago, but no way Geelong would accept it now.
Maybe we can involve it in a 3 or 4 way trade that gets Ablett there, who knows

[liz]

I know I've said this before but in our recent final defeats, can somebody please tell me which forward played well except for Buddy in 2014 GF? I could name a host of players, including Rohan. Still required and valuable.

- - - Updated - - -

People call it down hill skiing. .

But, as suggested by Blood Fever's comment quoted above yours, most forwards are down hill skiers in the sense that it's very hard for them to be effective when the midfield isn't functioning.

[Boddo]

But, as suggested by Blood Fever's comment quoted above yours, most forwards are down hill skiers in the sense that it's very hard for them to be effective when the midfield isn't functioning.

But they do still lift. Buddy has, Daniher has, Brown used to, Papley, Even going back to Jeff Farmer. Like I said if it was a one off I wouldn't even mention him but it's not a one off. He's played one good final against Norf off half back.

I won't be replying as I'm about to sit n watch the TAC cup gf. So thanx for the debate everyone n hope you all have a good night. Cheers????

[S.S. Bleeder]

I'd take pick 13 for rohan. But I think we'd be looking for an established player.
A Rohan/Motlop trade might have been on the cards a few weeks ago, but no way Geelong would accept it now.
Maybe we can involve it in a 3 or 4 way trade that gets Ablett there, who knows

Rohan's a better player than Motlop, in particular his defensive game, so important these days, is better. Motlop has only played a handful of good games this year, it just so happened that his best was against us last week.

[Blood Fever]

But they do still lift. Buddy has, Daniher has, Brown used to, Papley, Even going back to Jeff Farmer. Like I said if it was a one off I wouldn't even mention him but it's not a one off. He's played one good final against Norf off half back.

I won't be replying as I'm about to sit n watch the TAC cup gf. So thanx for the debate everyone n hope you all have a good night. Cheers????

Papley has hardly shone in the finals we have been discussing. If Rohan is a dead loss for us in finals we have lost, Tom Hawkins is in the same boat. Hasn't fired a shot in the 7 of the last 10 finals they have lost. Doubt they'll get rid of him. Games won and lost in midfield and pressure stakes.

[liz]

But they do still lift. Buddy has, Daniher has, Brown used to, Papley, Even going back to Jeff Farmer. Like I said if it was a one off I wouldn't even mention him but it's not a one off. He's played one good final against Norf off half back.

I won't be replying as I'm about to sit n watch the TAC cup gf. So thanx for the debate everyone n hope you all have a good night. Cheers????

Papley was no more effective in the 2016 than Rohan, and only marginally more in the 2017 SF. Naming him supports the suggestion that it's very hard for forwards to look good when the midfield is being beaten.

Buddy wasn't at his best in either 2016 GF or 2017 SF but in each case he was physically hampered. When fit, he is a player with the fitness based to wander further afield and make an impact if the ball isn't coming into the forward line.

Can't comment on Brown or Daniher unless you refer to games where they functioned despite their midfields getting thumped. Even so, I don't deny that Rohan struggles to do this. I just attribute it to a lack of endurance (for which there is evidence available in the public domain - ie the knowledge that he's not had a pre-season for ages) as opposed to some construct of mental demons, for which I've seen no evidence presented.

[Mark26]

Papley was no more effective in the 2016 than Rohan, and only marginally more in the 2017 SF. Naming him supports the suggestion that it's very hard for forwards to look good when the midfield is being beaten.

Buddy wasn't at his best in either 2016 GF or 2017 SF but in each case he was physically hampered. When fit, he is a player with the fitness based to wander further afield and make an impact if the ball isn't coming into the forward line.

Can't comment on Brown or Daniher unless you refer to games where they functioned despite their midfields getting thumped. Even so, I don't deny that Rohan struggles to do this. I just attribute it to a lack of endurance (for which there is evidence available in the public domain - ie the knowledge that he's not had a pre-season for ages) as opposed to some construct of mental demons, for which I've seen no evidence presented.

Couldn't agree more about the midfield Liz. If your midfield is under pressure, they tend to rush delivery into the forward line, are not clean when they are trying to take possession and ultimately starve your forwards of multiple opportunities.

The flow on effect is that it increases pressure on your backline as they are constantly under pressure, but it also adds pressure on your forwards to perform with limited opportunities. To compensate, your backs kick under perceived / real pressure which create turnovers and the ball just comes flying back in. Your forwards tend to get desperate as they are starved of quality ball. They may lead to places they normally wouldn't, or try to do too much to turn things around.

The bottom line in my humble opinion is that games are won and lost (for the most part) in the engine room.

[Markwebbos]

I'm not an advocate of trading Rohan but yes, almost every player is tradeable at a price. I'd trade Rohan for pick 13 but the reality is that West Coast wouldn't, so it's a moot point.

While Rohan has his deficiencies (most of which I believe are attributable to the fact that he's not had a pre-season to speak off for at least five seasons, maybe longer), I think he remains more valuable to the Swans than anything another club is realistically likely to offer for him.

Nicely put