2017 trading, drafting, list management

[barry]

List management tip:

Keep Rohan;

Delist barry.

Dumbass Victorian. Go follow Richmond.

[0918330512]

Dumbass Victorian. Go follow Richmond.

For someone who cries "play the ball not the man" and who seems to support GW$ as much as the Swans, that's a bit rich and a lot unnecessary

[Markwebbos]

I appreciate that he did some pinch-hitting in the ruck this year, but he is listed at 188cm - surely this isn't going to be his primary role.


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He broke the standing vertical jump record at the draft combine i.e. he plays taller than 189. Adam Goodes was 191 and he went OK as a ruckman.

[barry]

For someone who cries "play the ball not the man" and who seems to support GW$ as much as the Swans, that's a bit rich and a lot unnecessary

RWO has taught me to fight fire with fire.

[Boddo]

I took your advice and had a little look at some video highlights. Balta certainly looks an enticing prospect and Twomey has him as low as 19. Coffield also looks good.

BTW, how good does Izak Rankine look as a prospect for next year?

I'd rate him pick 2 ATM for next year. I like Lukosious as no1 ATM. These type of players are game breakers. The type that win you finals. Here's an article from earlier in the year.

AFL draft 2017 list, 2018 draft, top prospects, Jack Lukosius, Izak Rankine, Max King, Ben King | Fox Sports

Balta will go earlier than 19 imo. I don't rate twomey much. I do rate knightmare that puts a lot of effort into his ratings and is not influenced by the politics of the afl or clubs. A link to his power rankings from September

Knightmare's AFL Draft Power Rankings September Andrew Brayshaw surges

He also does a weekly wrap. I don't rate twomey that much to be honest but that's just my opinion. Others will have a different opinion which is fair enough.

[Boddo]

To get the #1 pick in 2018 you are talking about trading someone like Heeney, Mills or Parker. They are all under contract anyway, so it is very unlikely. I would be thinking that we finish top 4 next year, so Blakely is likely to be bid on before our 1st round pick. I would be interested in your views on what kind of trade we could do to get that #1 pick to land Lukosious.

You'd be looking at trading one of our contested mids. Hannebery would be the first that comes to mind & our 2019 future first with maybe a Rohan or Aliir thrown in. Your trading next year so that way you know who has the first pick not this year. I know it's sounds like throat slitting stuff to say it but you have to give up quality to get a quality game breaking player n whether anyone likes to admit it, in 3 years time Franklin will not be our game breaker. We haven't got one coming through. The same thing was tried to get Dustin Martin n I'll bet the club wish they tried that bit harder now. Also the club did something similar at the '98 draft but not as drastic n ended up with 2 premiership players. Have no idea why your pointing out that Blakey will be bid on before our first because I'm pretty most people know that. We'll pay our first n second for him. But like I've said on here regularly he's not that standout out game breaking forward that people think he is. He'll be good but ain't going to be a Franklin type player. Lukosious will be. He murdered Brander in the u18 championship game. He's the real deal. Fair enough you don't agree n you sound like you never want to let a player go. That's fine I just disagree.

[Industrial Fan]

Don't think we need another big forward. We need another Eski / Wilson type.

Jones is good with run and carry but doesn't have a deadly kick on him.

[Boddo]

While I agee we don't need one now we will in 3 years time n that's what your drafting for over the next 2 drafts. Your drafting for the 2021 season. In 21 Franklin will be an aging star who's best days will definitely be behind him. Reid will be 29, Tippet n Sinclair will most likely be gone. Drafting is not about drafting for the now it's building a list for the future.

[Ludwig]

You'd be looking at trading one of our contested mids. Hannebery would be the first that comes to mind & our 2019 future first with maybe a Rohan or Aliir thrown in. Your trading next year so that way you know who has the first pick not this year. I know it's sounds like throat slitting stuff to say it but you have to give up quality to get a quality game breaking player n whether anyone likes to admit it, in 3 years time Franklin will not be our game breaker. We haven't got one coming through. The same thing was tried to get Dustin Martin n I'll bet the club wish they tried that bit harder now. Also the club did something similar at the '98 draft but not as drastic n ended up with 2 premiership players. Have no idea why your pointing out that Blakey will be bid on before our first because I'm pretty most people know that. We'll pay our first n second for him. But like I've said on here regularly he's not that standout out game breaking forward that people think he is. He'll be good but ain't going to be a Franklin type player. Lukosious will be. He murdered Brander in the u18 championship game. He's the real deal. Fair enough you don't agree n you sound like you never want to let a player go. That's fine I just disagree.

I think your trade proposal is realistic as far as value, but Hanners and Rohan are both contracted and I would be surprised if Aliir got to the end of next season without a new contract. I can't see why they would go from a perennial finals side to a GC or NM.

I don't doubt the quality of Lukosius, but it seems a lot to give up for one draft pick, however good. We also will be in line to get a good forward prospect in Blakey, although I would agree that Lukosius looks better at this stage. Nonetheless, Blakey still looks a quality forward prospect, so I don't see the need sell the farm to get a shot at Lukosius.

I do like the way the 2018 draft is shaping up and we should have a fair number of open spots on our list. I wouldn't mind doing something this year to get another top 30 pick for 2018.

I'm looking forward to the under 18 all star game to get a look at the top players at the same time.

[Boddo]

I think your trade proposal is realistic as far as value, but Hanners and Rohan are both contracted and I would be surprised if Aliir got to the end of next season without a new contract. I can't see why they would go from a perennial finals side to a GC or NM.

I don't doubt the quality of Lukosius, but it seems a lot to give up for one draft pick, however good. We also will be in line to get a good forward prospect in Blakey, although I would agree that Lukosius looks better at this stage. Nonetheless, Blakey still looks a quality forward prospect, so I don't see the need sell the farm to get a shot at Lukosius.

I do like the way the 2018 draft is shaping up and we should have a fair number of open spots on our list. I wouldn't mind doing something this year to get another top 30 pick for 2018.

I'm looking forward to the under 18 all star game to get a look at the top players at the same time.

Contracts only mean so much. If the club wants another player desperately enough they will trade for them using players who are contracted or not. Players know this, they know it's a business there not like supporters. If Aliir puts in another year like this year I wouldn't guarantee him a contract. I will say though I'd be surprised if he put in a year the same as this year. They go for the same reason Lockett went to Sydney & Judd to Carlton, money or because they are moved on by the club. Sport is a business. Trading Hannebery, Rohan or Aliir is not selling the farm it's enhancing your kingdom. Blakey will be good but like I said Lukosious is the real deal. Would I rather draft a game breaking key forward or a good forward who plays a role? I'd take a a game breaking forward in Lukosious every day every month of every year. But I'm not choosing one or the other I'm talking about getting a game breaking match winning forward and also having a player that would be even better as a 2nd key forward. If you have the time watch the under 18 championship games as they give you a better indication as players in the all star game are encouraged to show more flair so it's a lot less pressure. It's why I liked Florent in that game he still played his game without trying to go overboard.

Agree we should try n move up the order for next year.

[0918330512]

Contracts only mean so much. If the club wants another player desperately enough they will trade for them using players who are contracted or not. Players know this, they know it's a business there not like supporters. If Aliir puts in another year like this year I wouldn't guarantee him a contract. I will say though I'd be surprised if he put in a year the same as this year. They go for the same reason Lockett went to Sydney & Judd to Carlton, money or because they are moved on by the club. Sport is a business. Trading Hannebery, Rohan or Aliir is not selling the farm it's enhancing your kingdom. Blakey will be good but like I said Lukosious is the real deal. Would I rather draft a game breaking key forward or a good forward who plays a role? I'd take a a game breaking forward in Lukosious every day every month of every year. But I'm not choosing one or the other I'm talking about getting a game breaking match winning forward and also having a player that would be even better as a 2nd key forward. If you have the time watch the under 18 championship games as they give you a better indication as players in the all star game are encouraged to show more flair so it's a lot less pressure. It's why I liked Florent in that game he still played his game without trying to go overboard.

Agree we should try n move up the order for next year.

I'm fairly certain a player cannot be traded against his will if he is under contract. If a player is told he is unwanted he may choose to go while under contract, but he cannot be forced to go. Bare minimum, the player has to actually sign a new contract with the new club. He can simply refuse to sign with the reassurance that he has the remainder of his contract left.

As for Lockett, sure there was money but he was also lured by the anonymity of playing in rugby league heartland, the lack of media scrutiny and the opportunity to work under the coaching genius Ron Barassi.

[Boddo]

I'm fairly certain a player cannot be traded against his will if he is under contract. If a player is told he is unwanted he may choose to go while under contract, but he cannot be forced to go. Bare minimum, the player has to actually sign a new contract with the new club. He can simply refuse to sign with the reassurance that he has the remainder of his contract left.

Of course they can't be forced but it's not that hard to move on a contracted player. Once their told they are not in the clubs plans going forward along the lines "we're unsure what role we have for you next year as we are making a few structural changes" they realise very quickly it's time to move on n are happy to go to a club that sees them as part of that clubs future. no1 goes up to them n says " hey your out m8 nice knowing ya" it's all done in a professional manner. As an example some players had to go through this when Collingwood got Buckley.

Lockett wanted to go to Richmond it was money that got him to Sydney. Ron Joseph said it in his interview on open mike. He turned around n drove back to his house n upped his offer a lot more.

As supporters we get very romantic about the game but sport is not much different to our work life. If we get offered a lot more than where we are working ATM to move to the competition down the road we will even though we have good relationships where we work atm. If it wasn't about money why would players have managers to negotiate their contract n advise. Whether we want to admit it or not the game is about money.

[0918330512]

Lockett wanted to go to Richmond it was money that got him to Sydney. Ron Joseph said it in his interview on open mike. He turned around n drove back to his house n upped his offer a lot more.

I'm sure you've got your opinion & won't be swayed, & Ron Joseph has his understanding of events.

I do believe I said money was involved with Lockett but according to Pluggers' autobiography:

Collingwood was his first choice. According to Plugger they withdrew their offer.

Richmond was his second choice. According to Plugger they couldn't work a trade with StKilda.

Sydney and Brisbane were also in the mix but as wooden spooner Sydney had the first pick in the pre-season draft, so could have got Lockett for free (but they wanted to use this on Roos). So the Swans traded picks 5, 13 & Robbie Neill to the Saints (the Hawks were involved too).

Pluggers autobiography then said that the anonymity of Sydney had big appeal as did playing under Barassi. The tenaciousness of Joseph helped as Plugger changed his mind on a number of occasions. And his former StKilda (& future Sydney) teammate, Jayson Daniels, also convinced him that the move to Sydney would be good.

So while I'm sure you'll come back with Ron J said it in an interview, I don't think it was as clear cut as Plugger was a mercenary who only (or primarily) went for the $. I don't write this to convince you, more so that others here get a balanced version of events.

[stevoswan]

Dumbass Victorian. Go follow Richmond.

You make some good points at times barry, then you let yourself down with shiit like that......

[Boddo]

I'm sure you've got your opinion & won't be swayed, & Ron Joseph has his understanding of events.

I do believe I said money was involved with Lockett but according to Pluggers' autobiography:

Collingwood was his first choice. According to Plugger they withdrew their offer.

Richmond was his second choice. According to Plugger they couldn't work a trade with StKilda.

Sydney and Brisbane were also in the mix but as wooden spooner Sydney had the first pick in the pre-season draft, so could have got Lockett for free (but they wanted to use this on Roos). So the Swans traded picks 5, 13 & Robbie Neill to the Saints (the Hawks were involved too).

Pluggers autobiography then said that the anonymity of Sydney had big appeal as did playing under Barassi. The tenaciousness of Joseph helped as Plugger changed his mind on a number of occasions. And his former StKilda (& future Sydney) teammate, Jayson Daniels, also convinced him that the move to Sydney would be good.

So while I'm sure you'll come back with Ron J said it in an interview, I don't think it was as clear cut as Plugger was a mercenary who only (or primarily) went for the $. I don't write this to convince you, more so that others here get a balanced version of events.

I'll completely change my mind on anything if anyone can show me differently. I'm not for one minute trying to say he's a mercenary because I don't believe he is because he was already leaving St Kilda. But money had a massive difference n the clincher was the extra money offered by Sydney via Joseph. Imo the anonymity would've had a very small part to play but it wouldn't have been a determining factor. He wanted to go to Collingwood or Richmond so it cancels it our as far as I'm concerned. He wanted to go Richmond n agreed but they just couldn't get the trade done n Collingwood had already vetoed it via their board. It's not a crime to want more money because I'm pretty sure the majority of the population thinks like that. For all the reasons Lockett came to Sydney the main one is money n then all the other things are built around It & it paints a nice picture. At the time I remember reading the back page of the HS with Lockett to Richmond n it sounded like the deal was done n then it fell apart. We jumped in upped the offer n he's a Sydney legend for ever. On the trade it looks like we got a steal but at the time Robbie Neill was a very very highly rated junior n walked out on the club a few years earlier cause he was made to crawl around on an oval on his hands n knees by our coach n lost a lot of skin off his knees. His parents were horrified. It took a lot to talk him to come back. So Carlton tried get him a few times during all this. So that 5 & 13 is also a player at the time who would have got us a first round pick also. So effectively it was 3 first round picks. But the main reason Lockett came was money but then as a true professional he bought into the club n played his guts out. I'm not trying to denigrate Lockett in any way shape or form.