Longmire.

[RogueSwan]

For mine a success is following a team which has a good chance of winning every game. Whether they win or not, that's footy.

[chammond]

Perhaps the term "ultimate success" for a flag meets all needs.

Some can settle for "partial success" of a good solid 4th or similar.

You're not even close.

Living in Gippsland, I've met a lot of AFL level footballers in my time, even went to school with a couple of Premiership players. Overwhelmingly, their measure of success seemed to be to get a long-term spot in the seniors - that means that they've "made it" professionally and have gained the respect of their peers. Winning a flag might become a benchmark later, but it never seemed to represent the "ultimate success". If you said to a young player "You will win 3 Brownlows, but you'll still be failure because you won't play in Grand Final", do you think he would agree with you?

Similarly with fans. The "success" of winning the Flag only lasts until the start of the new season - then you're only as good as your last game. For so many years, when I told people that I supported the Swans, the usual response was "What a shame". Now that has become my favourite response when discussing football. All the people I know who are Swans' fans from before the Sydney era are just as smug as me. We love the fact that Sydney make the finals every year. We love it that Sydney can poach champion players from under the noses of the Melbourne hegemony. We love it that McGuire and Brereton are green with envy. If we win the odd flag, that's great. But the real success is knowing that on any given day, we can beat any team in the comp. That's priceless. Just ask any Demons' supporter.

It's the journey that counts, not the destination.

[Hotpotato]

As supporters we don't have much choice but to settle for what the team deliver. The reality is flags are ridiculously
hard to win. Personally, after last year when I think we should have won because we were the best team in the comp,
I won't be happy unless we will the whole shebang. I've seen six Grand Finals, and we've only won two of them.
Two is not enough out of six for me at least. Four would have been better, 2006 & 2016 were the one's that go away IMO.
Sure, coming third or fourth this year after the 0-and-6 start will be commendable, but in a few years time it's not
going to count for much. But I understand that others have a different take on what constitutes a successful year.

That's a pretty fair take on it for me too having attended all but one Granny (2012) with the fam costing plenty.... notwithstanding the enjoyment of all the thrills, spills , weekly triumphs and watching the players reach their potential .... like Sinclair on Sat.

[sprite]

You're not even close.

Living in Gippsland, I've met a lot of AFL level footballers in my time, even went to school with a couple of Premiership players. Overwhelmingly, their measure of success seemed to be to get a long-term spot in the seniors - that means that they've "made it" professionally and have gained the respect of their peers. Winning a flag might become a benchmark later, but it never seemed to represent the "ultimate success". If you said to a young player "You will win 3 Brownlows, but you'll still be failure because you won't play in Grand Final", do you think he would agree with you?

Similarly with fans. The "success" of winning the Flag only lasts until the start of the new season - then you're only as good as your last game. For so many years, when I told people that I supported the Swans, the usual response was "What a shame". Now that has become my favourite response when discussing football. All the people I know who are Swans' fans from before the Sydney era are just as smug as me. We love the fact that Sydney make the finals every year. We love it that Sydney can poach champion players from under the noses of the Melbourne hegemony. We love it that McGuire and Brereton are green with envy. If we win the odd flag, that's great. But the real success is knowing that on any given day, we can beat any team in the comp. That's priceless. Just ask any Demons' supporter.

It's the journey that counts, not the destination.

+1

[goswannies]

As supporters we don't have much choice but to settle for what the team deliver. The reality is flags are ridiculously
hard to win. Personally, after last year when I think we should have won because we were the best team in the comp,
I won't be happy unless we will the whole shebang. I've seen six Grand Finals, and we've only won two of them.
Two is not enough out of six for me at least. Four would have been better, 2006 & 2016 were the one's that go away IMO.
Sure, coming third or fourth this year after the 0-and-6 start will be commendable, but in a few years time it's not
going to count for much. But I understand that others have a different take on what constitutes a successful year.

Valid points & there is no right or wrong. But 2 from 6 could also be put into perspective. From 1933-1936 when Archie Crofts assembled perhaps one of the greatest football sides ever thay played in 4 consecutive grand finals for just one win. You're right, Premierships aren't easy to win and it's a 2 horse race on the day.
If 06 was the one that got away, then 05 could just as easily have gone West Coast's way. & for all of the umpiring complaints last year, the Dogs played their hearts out, riding a wave of emotion. We may well have been a better side on the pay and a better side on paper, but even a bottom side can beat a top side on its day. A half decent side has a better chance. Some would argue that in 2014 throughout the season we had a better side than Hawthorn & played better footy for the majority.
Don't get me wrong - I (& probably many supporters, the player - though I won't purport that I speak for anyone but myself) will always lament the lossed opportunities as they just don't come along that often but I'd rather have our 2/6 than teams that have played in them and lost them (Saints, Freo) or simply started their Mad Mondays earlier ever year (Poor old Tigers).

[goswannies]

You're not even close.

If you said to a young player "You will win 3 Brownlows, but you'll still be failure because you won't play in Grand Final", do you think he would agree with you?

To be fair, once that young player had won his 3 Brownlows & played in a solitary final throughout his 237 game career he might say he'd give up those Brownlows for a Premiership medallion.

[barry]

To be fair, once that young player had won his 3 Brownlows & played in a solitary final throughout his 237 game career he might say he'd give up those Brownlows for a Premiership medallion.

Bob Skilton said that very thing.

[111431]

You're not even close.

Living in Gippsland, I've met a lot of AFL level footballers in my time, even went to school with a couple of Premiership players. Overwhelmingly, their measure of success seemed to be to get a long-term spot in the seniors - that means that they've "made it" professionally and have gained the respect of their peers. Winning a flag might become a benchmark later, but it never seemed to represent the "ultimate success". If you said to a young player "You will win 3 Brownlows, but you'll still be failure because you won't play in Grand Final", do you think he would agree with you?

Similarly with fans. The "success" of winning the Flag only lasts until the start of the new season - then you're only as good as your last game. For so many years, when I told people that I supported the Swans, the usual response was "What a shame". Now that has become my favourite response when discussing football. All the people I know who are Swans' fans from before the Sydney era are just as smug as me. We love the fact that Sydney make the finals every year. We love it that Sydney can poach champion players from under the noses of the Melbourne hegemony. We love it that McGuire and Brereton are green with envy. If we win the odd flag, that's great. But the real success is knowing that on any given day, we can beat any team in the comp. That's priceless. Just ask any Demons' supporter.

It's the journey that counts, not the destination.

here here - i'm one of those supporters also and my kids don't realise how lucky they are !

[chammond]

To be fair, once that young player had won his 3 Brownlows & played in a solitary final throughout his 237 game career he might say he'd give up those Brownlows for a Premiership medallion.

I guess that's the point I was struggling to make. It was easy for Skilts to say he'd swap flags for medals, because he'd already won the medals. But most AFL players never get near a Premiership nor a Brownlow. Does that make them ultimate failures? Maybe we should ask Gary Ablett Snr?

For example, what would Alex Johnson have said if Lucifer tapped him on the shoulder in 2012 and said that he could have a premiership medal in exchange for 5 years of his career. Which way would he have gone? I'm betting he would have preferred to be running onto the SCG every fortnight.

[Mug Punter]

You're not even close.

Living in Gippsland, I've met a lot of AFL level footballers in my time, even went to school with a couple of Premiership players. Overwhelmingly, their measure of success seemed to be to get a long-term spot in the seniors - that means that they've "made it" professionally and have gained the respect of their peers. Winning a flag might become a benchmark later, but it never seemed to represent the "ultimate success". If you said to a young player "You will win 3 Brownlows, but you'll still be failure because you won't play in Grand Final", do you think he would agree with you?

Similarly with fans. The "success" of winning the Flag only lasts until the start of the new season - then you're only as good as your last game. For so many years, when I told people that I supported the Swans, the usual response was "What a shame". Now that has become my favourite response when discussing football. All the people I know who are Swans' fans from before the Sydney era are just as smug as me. We love the fact that Sydney make the finals every year. We love it that Sydney can poach champion players from under the noses of the Melbourne hegemony. We love it that McGuire and Brereton are green with envy. If we win the odd flag, that's great. But the real success is knowing that on any given day, we can beat any team in the comp. That's priceless. Just ask any Demons' supporter.

It's the journey that counts, not the destination.

Great post and couldn't agree more.

[Blood Fever]

Valid points & there is no right or wrong. But 2 from 6 could also be put into perspective. From 1933-1936 when Archie Crofts assembled perhaps one of the greatest football sides ever thay played in 4 consecutive grand finals for just one win. You're right, Premierships aren't easy to win and it's a 2 horse race on the day.
If 06 was the one that got away, then 05 could just as easily have gone West Coast's way. & for all of the umpiring complaints last year, the Dogs played their hearts out, riding a wave of emotion. We may well have been a better side on the pay and a better side on paper, but even a bottom side can beat a top side on its day. A half decent side has a better chance. Some would argue that in 2014 throughout the season we had a better side than Hawthorn & played better footy for the majority.
Don't get me wrong - I (& probably many supporters, the player - though I won't purport that I speak for anyone but myself) will always lament the lossed opportunities as they just don't come along that often but I'd rather have our 2/6 than teams that have played in them and lost them (Saints, Freo) or simply started their Mad Mondays earlier ever year (Poor old Tigers).

Well put GS. One thing I will say is that it would be great if we're in another GF soon and win it. That would give us 3 flags out of 6 Grand Finals this century. If that was offered to any supporter they would gladly take it. Still maintain we have been spoilt and GS's point about the perennial under achieving teams is a good one. Would hate to think we would have lots of fans drop off if we had a bad patch for two or three years.

[Plugger Forever]

I guess that's the point I was struggling to make. It was easy for Skilts to say he'd swap flags for medals, because he'd already won the medals. But most AFL players never get near a Premiership nor a Brownlow. Does that make them ultimate failures? Maybe we should ask Gary Ablett Snr?

For example, what would Alex Johnson have said if Lucifer tapped him on the shoulder in 2012 and said that he could have a premiership medal in exchange for 5 years of his career. Which way would he have gone? I'm betting he would have preferred to be running onto the SCG every fortnight.

It is an interesting hypothetical.

Would he say yes, if part of the deal was he would never have another chance to play in a flag?

Don't know.

[tutulkaku]

Get real two key players out for most of game. Hard to cover that

[aardvark]

If we beat Hawthorn Friday night I promise i'll love him forever.

Well I guess i'm off the hook then, comprehensively out coached again tonight.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Well I guess i'm off the hook then, comprehensively out coached again tonight.

Players fault. Not me.

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