2020 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Ludwig]

+1

Pies aim was to shed salary and get i to the 1st Round 10/10

The chances of Hickey being anything at his age and his journey are about 20%

Port have 3 Rucks, we dumped Alir and couldn't get one of them.

Keeping Pick 3 is a win, the Academy players were always going to happen one way or another.

Lets hope as other have pointed out, we dont pick someone at Pick 3 from left field

You, Captain and many others are upset that we effectively traded Aliir cheaply for a journeyman ruckman. I rated Aliir a 1st round pick in the teens. So I'm not pleased about the value we got from the trade either. But it's clear from how quickly the trades were done that all the numbers were crunched in advance and in the end we got the outcome we wanted, including getting the points we need to cover the bid for the academy boys. We accepted what we got for Aliir because it was good enough to get what we wanted in the end. I think if we got pick 29 instead for Aliir, it would have ended in the same result.

I've been saying for months that we should target Ladhams and Hayes from Port. I thought with 3 good ruckmen, they would let one go. But they don't want to, and that's their prerogative. We can't force their contracted players to want to leave their current club and come to Sydney. I imagine that if we could have made a better deal, we would have. But this apparently was the best we could do. I don't know why we didn't pursue Preuss or Wright. We may never know.

In the final analysis, we might have done better, but for reasons unknown, these better outcomes didn't materialise. We didn'\t get full value for the loss of Aliir, but we got enough steak knives to make up for it. It's close enough to breakeven that I'm happy enough to call it a breakeven trade period.

[Auntie.Gerald]

If there is a player we rate that we have approached and said we will take you in the PSD (Pre season Draft) is it as simple as they nominate for the PSD and a contract amount and hope that Adelaide nor North Melbourne try to pick them up?

[waswan]

You, Captain and many others are upset that we effectively traded Aliir cheaply for a journeyman ruckman. I rated Aliir a 1st round pick in the teens. So I'm not pleased about the value we got from the trade either. But it's clear from how quickly the trades were done that all the numbers were crunched in advance and in the end we got the outcome we wanted, including getting the points we need to cover the bid for the academy boys. We accepted what we got for Aliir because it was good enough to get what we wanted in the end. I think if we got pick 29 instead for Aliir, it would have ended in the same result.

I've been saying for months that we should target Ladhams and Hayes from Port. I thought with 3 good ruckmen, they would let one go. But they don't want to, and that's their prerogative. We can't force their contracted players to want to leave their current club and come to Sydney. I imagine that if we could have made a better deal, we would have. But this apparently was the best we could do. I don't know why we didn't pursue Preuss or Wright. We may never know.

In the final analysis, we might have done better, but for reasons unknown, these better outcomes didn't materialise. We didn'\t get full value for the loss of Aliir, but we got enough steak knives to make up for it. It's close enough to breakeven that I'm happy enough to call it a breakeven trade period.

You never get what players are worth via picks, only Top 10 picks are worth face value.

I wonder if we did at all float pick 3 for a bonafide ruck ?

Hickey is a bandaid, we still need a ruck. Drafting a ruck is a 5yr minimum venture, if they come good and dont get injured.

Im getting over Alir but will note, the "coverage" we have for him include Brand and Gould who have 3 games between them in 12 months.

Had he gone and a mid 20s ruck from somewhere came back, I would have been happier.

[The Big Cat]

If there is a player we rate that we have approached and said we will take you in the PSD (Pre season Draft) is it as simple as they nominate for the PSD and a contract amount and hope that Adelaide nor North Melbourne try to pick them up?

I think that is right AG. Presumably that player is out of contract with his present club but hasn’t been delisted where he would immediately become a free agent and can be acquired prior to the PSD.

Do you have a candidate in mind?

[Melbourne_Blood]

Can anybody cite one game when Aliir had a major impact? These games don’t exist. Just a few highlights. Bit like Rohan’s highlight reel except that Gaz had the occasional influential match

I’m sure people on here would have been content to get a third rounder for Harry Cunningham had he been offered up and yet he has had significantly more impact on games than Aliir.

It appears Aliir (who I like) has a cult following which reacts the same way as followers of the Donald cult in the US.

Think you’re being super dismissive of some of the excellent footy AA played , especially in 2016 and 2018 in defence. Also notable games, against Majak daw 2-3 years ago when they fought an epic battle and AA kicked the match winner. And against Essendon at the G last year when he was best one for me in the ruck. He’s gone, I wish him all the best, but let’s not rewrite history and pretend the guy was a dud. He certainly isn’t.


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[giant]

Saints have gone with early draft picks in Clark, Coffee, King picks 7,8,4 last few years in the draft

In amongst this stratgey has been significant trades via 9 or so x top22 style players last few years also

Steele
Hannes
Hill
Butler
Ryder
Howard
Jones
Crouch
Higgins

They have popped up to 6th on the table in 2020 and traded again for Couch and Higgins this season

How do you evaluate a successful list management strategy ?

Years in the finals?
GF only?
Frequency of GFs like Richmond 3 in 4 years?
Improvement on the ladder every year?

What has to happen from here for the Saints?

Can we draw any parallels for us ie will we divert into more specific trades next few years like the Saints or have we truly become a club that can't achieve trades like a Melbourne club such as the Saints?

To me the Saints are the most interesting list build role model for us to consider. Not that we can necessary replicate (we struggle getting people to come interstate now with no COLA, it seems harder for us to find the quality mature age prospects etc) but there must be learnings in there for us. I guess you could argue it's not like they've demonstrated sustained success at this point though.

[waswan]

To me the Saints are the most interesting list build role model for us to consider. Not that we can necessary replicate (we struggle getting people to come interstate now with no COLA, it seems harder for us to find the quality mature age prospects etc) but there must be learnings in there for us. I guess you could argue it's not like they've demonstrated sustained success at this point though.

Ironically Saints season fell in a hole when their Journeyman Ruck was Injured in a final

[AB Swannie]

The Aliir debate just keeps going around in circles. Some people are unhappy and some are content. From the numerous pages and arguments, it doesn’t seem like one party is convincing the other to change their minds so is it possible that we just move on?

[Auntie.Gerald]

I think that is right AG. Presumably that player is out of contract with his present club but hasn’t been delisted where he would immediately become a free agent and can be acquired prior to the PSD.

Do you have a candidate in mind?

I didn't specifically Big Cat... but given a 2021 smaller list focus and longer wait times by clubs to commit to their full list I wonder if our "maven" like approach may have instigated conversation with a few players not signed at other clubs?

I dont think the following players will be in our best 22 if all goes plan for finals in 2022 or 2023 ie Thurlow, Squizz, grey, Foot, Bell, Wicks, Ronke, Brand, Oriordan etc therefore who else should we be grooming for a missing role at the club right now?

Probably another defender to cover AA and Rampes given we are after mids in Campbell and Gulden in the draft and pick3 is a mystery

2023 guess?

B Melican? Rampe? Gould?

HB Lloyd Mills Dawson

C Florent Rowbottom Blakey

HF Heeney T.Mcartin McInerny

F Papley P.MCartin? Hayward

Foll Hickey Parker Hewett

Interchange: Gulden, Stephens, Cunningham, Campbell, Pick3 from 2020 draft?, Ling?

[Ludwig]

Ironically Saints season fell in a hole when their Journeyman Ruck was Injured in a final

Which Journeyman ruck was that?

[Mel_C]

But did he sleep in for training

From what I have heard the answer is yes. Apparently Kirk would pick him up and take him to training.

[Thunder Shaker]

We gave up Aliir for not enough. We traded in a 4 club journeyman ruckman, missing out on better ones. We did nothing else to try and climb off the bottom of the ladder.

I have no idea how you could rate it any higher than a 5!

To be rated as only a 5 would imply that a great deal of the trading goals were not met. This is not true. We got more draft points, recruited a ruckman, kept our pick 3 and didn't make any obvious blunders.

The only real issue was trading away Aliir for unders. It was difficult to extract a fair value in that trade because Port were being tight-fisted with points-bearing picks. They will be recruiting Academy player Lachlan Jones in the draft. They exited the draft with enough points to match Lachlan Jones at pick 9, and Jones is ranked ninth in some lists of draft prospects such as Draft Central Power Rankings: November 2020.

There may be more to this. Port are cashed up with draft points but may not need them all. If they end up with surplus picks, they may be interested in trading them away. It's possible we've got an arrangement to take those picks if we need them.

Assessing the trading period in isolation is not a fair assessment. The trading period can only be assessed in conjunction with the draft, when the reasons for the decisions made in the trading period become clear.

[Syd76]

I'm sad to see Aliir go and am not confident that Hickey will be the answer in the Ruck but I guess they did their best. I felt we were under-paid by Port for Aliir and over-paid WCE for Hickey. We just need to move on - what's done is done. Collingwood making us look good in comparison.

Totally agree

[Markwebbos]

Which Journeyman ruck was that?

Good question. If our new ruck is as good as that "journeyman" Paddy Ryder, I'll be happy

[Mark26]

I didn't know where to put this, but It looks as though COR has been training with Tipperary back in Ireland and has been given the thumbs up by the Swans to play finals.

I think it's a good move from the Swans as the Irish lads sacrifice a lot in coming over. Let's hope he returns elated and not with an injury.

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