2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[waswan]

We havent always been fantastic with salary cap we have had our issues like everyone else.

We dumped Hannas with 3 or even 4yrs of a 800k salary, someone had to had signed that in the 1st place. It is only bearable now cos he is broken but its every bit a Treloar firesale on face value.

Losing a top 5 for less then a Top 10 would be pathetic, without even bringing up the Sydney supporter Serong

[mcs]

We havent always been fantastic with salary cap we have had our issues like everyone else.

We dumped Hannas with 3 or even 4yrs of a 800k salary, someone had to had signed that in the 1st place. It is only bearable now cos he is broken but its every bit a Treloar firesale on face value.

Losing a top 5 for less then a Top 10 would be pathetic, without even bringing up the Sydney supporter Serong

To be fair, when we signed up Hanners to that contract, we were taking the normal risk that any club takes with long term contracts in terms of what father time and injuries may do to a player. I don't think anyone could have predicted how quickly his ability to stay fit dropped off a cliff after the fairypuppies went to work on him in that day that shall not be mentioned. Without knowing all the inside knowledge, I suspect it was less 'firesale' like Treloar was, but more a case of a combination of Hanners deciding he wanted to head back to Melbourne, the Swans facing salary cap pressure of some degree, and a club willing to step in. We aren't paying a whole chunk of his salary still, unlike the pies with Treloar.

If Stephens goes, then I'd be astounded if we get more than say a 2nd rounder for him. It wouldn't be a great outcome, but we are not going to be in a great negotiating position either if he wants to go.

[liz]

Hanners' career took a downward turn a few minutes into the final quarter of the 2016 GF. He had a magnificent season that year, up until that point, making the AA team (along with JPK and Parker).

His departure wasn't a Treloar-like fire sale. It was a canny offloading of salary cap occupied by a player with a huge question mark over his future. You only have to see how few games he has played for the Saints since his move to see that the trade has been vindicated from the Swans' perspective (putting the emotional connection aside). (What is less understandable is why the Saints gave him an extra two seasons on top of the ones they were taking off our books.)

[i'm-uninformed2]

I'm far from convinced there is a genuine 'cap issue', beyond the normal balancing act every club has to play with its list (beyond those that seem to have a sombrero rather than a cap ). I would suspect most clubs, bar those that throw around huge long contracts it seems for every good player they have (such as the Plastics - but then they pay for that by losing a lot of fringe players along the way too) run into the same issues year by year too.

I don’t disagree. But that juggling act is constant.

So, say, the argument over Parker’s fourth year (which personally, I’m in favour of given his durability).

The Swans would be arguably trying to get three years at - for sake of argument - $750K. Parker’s team may be arguing for 4 years at $700K.

That’s a $550K difference over the life of the contract and particularly in 2024 and 2025 when our real young brigade of JMac, Chad, Gulden, McCartin, etc will be hitting their peak and demanding real dollars, it’s potentially the difference between one falling out and not.

And even front loading a contract on Parker to allow space in the back end for those others doesn’t work, because we still have Bud and Heeney on high dollars next year, and we’re about to resign Dawson on a decent lift, and Mills and Paps are still on good coin.

As I said, I’d keep Parker every day of the week, but it’s why the juggle is an endless one.

[gloveski]

Hanners' career took a downward turn a few minutes into the final quarter of the 2016 GF. He had a magnificent season that year, up until that point, making the AA team (along with JPK and Parker).

His departure wasn't a Treloar-like fire sale. It was a canny offloading of salary cap occupied by a player with a huge question mark over his future. You only have to see how few games he has played for the Saints since his move to see that the trade has been vindicated from the Swans' perspective (putting the emotional connection aside). (What is less understandable is why the Saints gave him an extra two seasons on top of the ones they were taking off our books.)

I seem to recall a close family friend of the Hannebery family was pretty high up in the Saints at the time


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[Bangalore Swans]

Hanners' career took a downward turn a few minutes into the final quarter of the 2016 GF. He had a magnificent season that year, up until that point, making the AA team (along with JPK and Parker).

His departure wasn't a Treloar-like fire sale. It was a canny offloading of salary cap occupied by a player with a huge question mark over his future. You only have to see how few games he has played for the Saints since his move to see that the trade has been vindicated from the Swans' perspective (putting the emotional connection aside). (What is less understandable is why the Saints gave him an extra two seasons on top of the ones they were taking off our books.)

I met Hanners once at an Auskick event and he presented as being a terrific bloke. Great speaker and gave his valuable time to the kids.

Hope he gets fit and plays some great football again.

[gloveski]

Saints are keen on McLean now , looks like as much as we hate the idea we are going to lose some pretty handy players in the off season . Makes me wonder how the hell we were going to fit Daniher in if that trade had got done .


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[AB Swannie]

Isn’t the reason for our cap issue easy.

Here’s what we need to accommodate:

- in 2021: Parker, Dawson, Reid, Hewett, Stephens.

- in 2022: McInerney, Campbell, Rampe, Gulden, Cunningham, Lloyd, Heeney, McDonald.

- in 2023: Mills, Warner, Hickey, McCartin, Papley, Amartey.

That’s the bulk of current or thereabouts best 22 up for renewal. That’s without Bell, or McLean, or other fringe players being up for renewal. It’s a lot to juggle.

How long do you think the average length of a contract is? I would say about 10% of the players who are highly sought after opt for a longer contract of 5 years and the superstars get 5 years plus but the majority would be on 2-3 year contracts. It means that every club has probably 75-80% of their list out of contract within any given 3 year period. If the Swans are in salary cap problems because we have many players coming out of contract over the next few years then every club has salary cap problems.

My best guess is we don't have a salary cap problem - we have a cost of living problem.

[Mark26]

Saints are keen on McLean now , looks like as much as we hate the idea we are going to lose some pretty handy players in the off season . Makes me wonder how the hell we were going to fit Daniher in if that trade had got done .


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I'm sick of the Saints getting our players. Don't they know how to pick someone at the draft and develop them? They're fast becoming another parasitic club.

[i'm-uninformed2]

How long do you think the average length of a contract is? I would say about 10% of the players who are highly sought after opt for a longer contract of 5 years and the superstars get 5 years plus but the majority would be on 2-3 year contracts. It means that every club has probably 75-80% of their list out of contract within any given 3 year period. If the Swans are in salary cap problems because we have many players coming out of contract over the next few years then every club has salary cap problems.

My best guess is we don't have a salary cap problem - we have a cost of living problem.

Your basic thesis is correct. And we certainly have a cost of living problem. $1m gets you a nice house near the beach at Torquay. $1m gets you a ratty old two bedroom apartment overlooking someone's garbage bins in Coogee. It's the difference between a bloke at Geelong settling for $500K, and the same player in Sydney scrambling for $550-600K.

I think where we have an acute issue over the next few years is not the volume of contracts up for renewal, but the number of talented young players we have coming through. It's widely regarded as good as any batch in the comp.

Again, not necessarily a crisis like some in the media portray it, but it only takes four or five players squeezing an extra $50K each out of us, and suddenly you start to either lose depth like McLean, or struggle to meet, for the sake of the argument, JMac's demand next year for $500K, rather than $420K.

I think a big one going forward for us will be Heeney. The scuttle was he signed for an average of $900K. Now, even he will probably accept he was paid overs. But what sort of cut does he accept. Again, there's a big implication for our cap between him going to, say, $650K over four years, and $725K over four years. I'll bet his manager will tell him to demand the latter.

[KSAS]

Last Monday on FC Caro did mention whilst Pyke is right in the frame for the Collingwood coaching job (along with Brad Scott), she also hinted possibility of Pyke choosing to stay in his role at the Swans which he seems to be enjoying, rather than being thrusted in a seemingly turmoil club. Interestingly Ross Lyon gave similar critique of Pies job on FC last night.

Hope developing players like McLean, Armatey & McDonald can see long term (exciting) future at our club post Buddy & Reid, to reject overtures from other clubs like St Kilda who've seemed to have lost their way.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I found the Lyon critique weird, not because he's wrong about the uncertainty at Collingwood - that was fair enough

But given what a laughing stock of rolling personnel, coaches and strategies Carlton has been, how he sees 'certainty' there, I'll never know.

[Faunac8]

I'm sick of the Saints getting our players. Don't they know how to pick someone at the draft and develop them? They're fast becoming another parasitic club.

Given that he was a Sandringham Dragons player who are or were affiliated with the Saints they probably view it as chasing one that they let get away . They didn’t want him in 2018 but now we have polished him up and shown his potential they do and you can’t blame them for having a crack.
In my opinion when you have a bloke who is only 22 almost 2 metres tall can clunk a contested mark and covers more ground then any other player during games you would probably concede their is some upside to be enjoyed and make a place for him on your list .
Having said that money talks and if he chooses to chase that then good luck to him but I suspect given the fact that he has been selected as captain or vice captain by teams previously that he has a mature head on his shoulders and will consider other factors than $ when deciding his future career moves.

[Bangalore Swans]

Given that he was a Sandringham Dragons player who are or were affiliated with the Saints they probably view it as chasing one that they let get away . They didn’t want him in 2018 but now we have polished him up and shown his potential they do and you can’t blame them for having a crack.
In my opinion when you have a bloke who is only 22 almost 2 metres tall can clunk a contested mark and covers more ground then any other player during games you would probably concede their is some upside to be enjoyed and make a place for him on your list .
Having said that money talks and if he chooses to chase that then good luck to him but I suspect given the fact that he has been selected as captain or vice captain by teams previously that he has a mature head on his shoulders and will consider other factors than $ when deciding his future career moves.

Great post.

[Mark26]

Given that he was a Sandringham Dragons player who are or were affiliated with the Saints they probably view it as chasing one that they let get away . They didn’t want him in 2018 but now we have polished him up and shown his potential they do and you can’t blame them for having a crack.
In my opinion when you have a bloke who is only 22 almost 2 metres tall can clunk a contested mark and covers more ground then any other player during games you would probably concede their is some upside to be enjoyed and make a place for him on your list .
Having said that money talks and if he chooses to chase that then good luck to him but I suspect given the fact that he has been selected as captain or vice captain by teams previously that he has a mature head on his shoulders and will consider other factors than $ when deciding his future career moves.

I agree with all of that. But their draft strategy of late is a bit unimaginative. It's comprised of who can we poach this year for nothing or unders? Takes me back to Membrey. I hope he stays. We selected him and backed him in. I hope he repays the favour.