2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[AB Swannie]

I forgot about Reid , one of the younger talls will replace him

Rd 1 this year we had Reid McLean McDonald and Heeney fwd
Rd 2 we did the same just swapped McLean for Buddy
Rd 3 the same and swapped them again

3 talls and Heeney thats the way

Will be Bud , then any 2 of McDonald McLean or Amartey . Then Heeney

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Ok who are you taking out of the midfield then for Heeney ? Jpk? Parker , Mills ? Chad ? Keeping in mind we want to also give more mid opportunities to Gulden , Jmac, Campbell etc

My structure would be something like this:
Forwards (7)
Buddy
Papley
Fwd/Rck (McLean/Amartey)
McDonald
Hayward
Wicks
Gulden

Mids (7)
Mills
Parker
JPK
Heeney
Florent
Rowbottom
Warner

Backs (7)
McCartin, T
McCartin, P
Rampe
Cunningham
Lloyd
Blakey
McInerney

Ruck (1)
Hickey

At the moment. I have Campbell as 23rd. However, we all know that we will have injuries and rotation so he will play plenty.

[TheBloods]

My structure would be something like this:
Forwards (7)
Buddy
Papley
Fwd/Rck (McLean/Amartey)
McDonald
Hayward
Wicks
Gulden

Mids (7)
Mills
Parker
JPK
Heeney
Florent
Rowbottom
Warner

Backs (7)
McCartin, T
McCartin, P
Rampe
Cunningham
Lloyd
Blakey
McInerney

Ruck (1)
Hickey

At the moment. I have Campbell as 23rd. However, we all know that we will have injuries and rotation so he will play plenty.

I would swap Gulden in fwds with Heeney in mids

And you know who i would swap for Campbell

Other than that i agree , its a very good team

[Kafka's Ghost]

I would think that you’ve been around long enough to realise that we have been enormously competitive over the past 20 years hardly ever missing finals and have won 1.5 flags. Our list management has been spectacular. Dawson is the only player I can think of who is in our top 5 players that we really wanted to keep. His decision to leave is not down to list management but is all on Dawson.

Spot on, apart from the 1.5 flags bit. We’ve won 2 flags in 20 years, and both 2006 and 2016 were contentious GF losses.

[barry]

You didn't answer my question Barry. I think you are oversimplifying things. For example, I don't think Geelong losing a player like Tim Kelly (at the time a better player than JD) stopped them being a "destination club" for Cameron and others.

I'm not actually on here to answer your questions.

Tim Kelly had a very strong reason to go home. About the only one that passes the pub test for a 'homesick' 20 year old.

[sprite]

Develop Amarty as a defender.

He has pace, a great leap, can take a contested mark, reads the play well and provides a good contest.

Joel can provide the chop out ruck in defence, leaving Hickey as the outlet down the line.

We did it with Tommy McC, so should be able to with Joel.

I would leave McLean to develop into CHF, with Logan as FF.

I'm not sure about Paddy Mc being a key defender just yet as from watching him on TV, he was obviously better than most others in the reserves and seemed to coast along. Perhaps this was key to him not being drafted midseason as well as his brainfart.

[Markwebbos]

I'm not actually on here to answer your questions.

Tim Kelly had a very strong reason to go home. About the only one that passes the pub test for a 'homesick' 20 year old.

I was asking you to give an example of a club currently succeeding at the thing you allege we are failing at. Of course you can refuse to do that.

[AB Swannie]

Spot on, apart from the 1.5 flags bit. We’ve won 2 flags in 20 years, and both 2006 and 2016 were contentious GF losses.

Sorry - should’ve read 2.5 flags. The 0.5 was largely in reference to 2016.

[707]

We were ranked 6th in centre clearances this season, btw, just ahead of the Demons.

That's nasty Ludwig, shot down an unsubstantiated opinion by using FACTS :-)

[707]

Richmond were a destination club. Geelong was to some extent to (althought they favoured older "cheaper" players chasing a flag at the end of their career). I think both will now be rolling off the destination list as their flag window has closed and players who stayed for unders, look for the dollars.
I'd say Hawthorn (under clarkson) were also a destination club. We were back in the 2010 to 2016 period.

We are not a destination club at the moment. Allir want out, Papley wanted out but luckily we turned it around. Now Dawson and Hewett want out. I dont know the details of each, but there is a trend there, and at a fundamental level, we do not have player retention right if our 3rd best player in 2021 wants out.

Papley wanted out due to personal reasons back in Melbourne that have now passed

Aliir was offered a richer and longer contract than we were prepared to offer so we took the opportunity to get Hickey in the trade

Hewett doesn't want out, he wasn't offered a contract by us but was offered a substantial 4 year deal by Carlton

Dawson wanted out probably ultimately because of the strain Covid restrictions were placing on his personal circumstances

So we don't have an exodus of players "wanting out"

[Syd76]

Interesting that the so called "haggling" over Dawson is yet to take place. It lists KB as the man to do this with Justin Reid the Adelaide manager... who says they want to strike a fair deal.

Refer to the AFL for the article.. Justin Reid was on Trade radio this morning...

[Markwebbos]

Interesting that the so called "haggling" over Dawson is yet to take place. It lists KB as the man to do this with Justin Reid the Adelaide manager... who says they want to strike a fair deal.

Refer to the AFL for the article.. Justin Reid was on Trade radio this morning...

I thought Reid was just being very cagey. He did say he'd had preliminary discussions with KB about JD. It's not going to be a two club deal given the Crows draft picks. Another club is going to have to get involved. Reid did also say that KB had his own things he was working on. Not sure if this was referring to (a) contracting Swans players or (b) other trades?

[Aprilbr]

I sent an email to trade radio (which of course bounced back, the info on their facebook page is completely out of date) asking them to get some list managers to explain how they arrive at these valuations. I'd genuinely love to know why they think Cerra is 6+, Clark "early 20s" and JD only mid teens?

Its not just the merits of a player that determines his trade value. The relative bargaining power of the two clubs is also a factor. For example, if the guy still has a year to go on his contract then the selling club is in a better position to negotiate. If the club seeking to acquire the player finished well down the ladder then that means the player can just go into the PSD with a high price on his head and he will most likely get to them. This possibility does strengthen their bargaining position somewhat.

In comparing Cera to Dawson, Carlton finished higher up the ladder than the Crows so the latter is in a slightly better bargaining position. My understanding is that both players are out of contract so that's not a factor here. Cera is 2 years younger than Dawson as well. In sum, I can see why Cera will go for more in return than Dawson. We will push for a top 10 pick but I expect we will get something similar for him as we received for Mitchell - number 14 pick (used on Ollie for the record).

[Markwebbos]

I do understand that whether a player is contracted or not is a factor, as is the threat of the PSD - the negotiations over Lipinski will be interesting?!? And salary cap dumping can drastically lower a players asking price.

But I think the position a player was taken in the craft is also a factor (Cerra 5, JD 56) and I don't really understand why that is?
Does a club trading FOR a player consider what it might cost them in the draft for someone similar (likewise does Sydney with the asking price)? Given that we've probably only got a 50% chance with a pick, shouldn't we be asking double?

The value put on players heads: Shiel, Tim Kelly, Weller, Bryce Gibbs, Dayne Beams, Adam Treloar (twice) seems to quite random to me. But I suspect there is some method to the madness.

[WomblingFree]

We need a tall defender and everytime Reid has gone down back he has played well. I would like to see him given a go in defence next year.

I agree this would be worth a try, free up Rampe to play on the third tall and provide a bit more run.

I guess it all depends on cap space and what we have left, and what Sam is prepared to accept. A club like North would have to be tempted to have in a player/mentor role. Or maybe he wants to stay in Sydney, content he has done well out of the game and accept a deal that is basic wage plus a decent per games bonus.

I feel Sinkers is more of a priority list wise as our backup recognised ruckman which could see Sam's papers stamped.

[707]

I agree this would be worth a try, free up Rampe to play on the third tall and provide a bit more run.

I guess it all depends on cap space and what we have left, and what Sam is prepared to accept. A club like North would have to be tempted to have in a player/mentor role. Or maybe he wants to stay in Sydney, content he has done well out of the game and accept a deal that is basic wage plus a decent per games bonus.

I feel Sinkers is more of a priority list wise as our backup recognised ruckman which could see Sam's papers stamped.

Sinkers already signed on for 2022, our list of unsigned players is now quite small by my reckoning. Reid as a KPD is worth a try, as is Paddy McCartin for free