2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[giant]

Nice to read the club has raised the need to change the PSD - fans of stupid clubs will just say its the Swans whining as per normal, but the comments are spot on:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/afl/swans-call-for-pre-season-draft-change-after-dawson-defection-20211014-p58zyv.html

Also interesting inclusion around some players being pretty unhappy with Dawson's very late call - suggest there won't be much love lost when we first play the fruit tingles.

Doesn't look good for Sam. That will be a big delisting, and to be fair to him should be done sooner rather than later, as I suspect there may be interest from others.

- - - Updated - - -

I think, to be fair to George here, apart from Walsh, the concept of running two ways is largely foreign to them.

Carlton has a great spine, but their midfielders think defence is something you build in the back yard.

On fire this trade period, IU2 - one of our best performers.

[Ludwig]

Why do you think a team with an aging midfield would get rid of a big young inside midfielder like Charlie Constable? Stephen Wells is a very clever list manager.

Even when Josh Kennedy goes, we are not going to look for a like for like replacement. We don't want a like for like replacement, as good as JPK has been. We have evolved into a different team requiring different kinds of players.

The Swans want midfielders who are quick and can move the ball out of the congestion and get it forward before the opposition get a chance to set their defence. Those are the type of midfielders we will be looking for in the draft or recruiting from other clubs.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Nice to read the club has raised the need to change the PSD - fans of stupid clubs will just say its the Swans whining as per normal, but the comments are spot on:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/afl/swans-call-for-pre-season-draft-change-after-dawson-defection-20211014-p58zyv.html

Also interesting inclusion around some players being pretty unhappy with Dawson's very late call - suggest there won't be much love lost when we first play the fruit tingles.

Pridham doesn’t speak often, so when he does it carries weight.

Fits with a bit of what I heard and posted re the thought given to how to make a point re PSD being a stupid concept, though I am personally glad Swans did it via media commentary rather than sacrificing a pick.

In saying the Swans were dirty on him, I hadn’t heard either way re players and suggest some will just be oblivious to it.

But I was always adamant from what I was hearing - even from the Adelaide end of things - the Swans management was beyond ropeable with him. I know The Rat will never be welcome back at the Swans in any capacity. Utter persona non grata.

The leaking of the Horse conversation to make himself look good was the final straw, and seen as way beyond the pale.

[giant]

I think this is a bit harsh on Reid to be honest. He had some really, really good extended patches of good form early in his career - up until the 2016 wipeout, it was only 2013 where he didn't play 20+ games.

After that point, injuries have cruelled him every second season pretty much. But still, statistically 2017 and 2019 were right up there with what he managed in an outstanding year in 2012.

I think its harsh to have a jibe at him being a 'loyal servant' and tying it to his salary, like he hasn't done everything possible to maximise his time on the park. He just hasn't had a whole lot of luck in the 2nd half of his career. Not the first, nor the last for that to happen - but I've seen no evidence in any of that he has been a 'passenger' just trying to collect his paycheck, like some players become as injuries take their toll. His output of course has been impacted, but he has been a loyal servant to the club, and was a key cog of that 2012 grand final winning team. And while its nothing but a 'what if' scenario in the mind, he would of been a very handy in to that team in 2016 as well (and while zero criticism should be given to Xavier Richards and the efforts he put in that year - he wasn't a 10th of the player that Reid was at anywhere near his best form) and we might have seen a different result - perhaps.

As a premiership player and, as you say, a loyal servant he deserves our thanks and respect. But let's be clear, his best season goals-wise was 31 in 2012 (followed by 30 in 2017). That was 9 years ago and yes, he's done his time as a swingman, but in effect he has been very well paid part-time utility for most of his time at the Swans (just probably not as well paid as Rory Lobb apparently). If this is the end, it will be a little sad, but he'd have to reflect he's done pretty nicely with his time at the Swans.

[Ralph Dawg]

Of course we shouldn't.

We are all being a bit cynical about Constable and Sier as well, now that they've been delisted. I don't know if you missed some of the debate over these 2 players the past couple of years when many on RWO argued that we should go after them and Ludwig had to beat them down with a truncheon.

Some still haven't given up.

I was one of them Ludwig. I even suggested the other Pies big inside midfielder Rupert Wills. My thinking at the time was one of them could be the next JPK. What last season showed was a big body is one thing but the ability to break away from the contest is more crucial. The day of the monster in the middle is over.

[liz]

I was one of them Ludwig. I even suggested the other Pies big inside midfielder Rupert Wills. My thinking at the time was one of them could be the next JPK. What last season showed was a big body is one thing but the ability to break away from the contest is more crucial. The day of the monster in the middle is over.

I think there's still room for someone in the middle with brute strength. In an ideal world you'd have people with the strength and power to break away - the Dangerfields, Petraccas, Martins of this world - but they are hard to find. Even though he's nearing his footballing end, there were still some wonderful plays last season from Kennedy, whereby he was able to hold his ground with a couple of opponents hanging off him, and find a team mate in a great spot, or running past.

So there is a role for them, but they have to be very good.

And while JPK doesn't have explosive pace - or any pace by AFL standards - he's still fit and runs hard. So he's not limited to winning the ball in close. He can also work to find space and act as a receiver.

[Ludwig]

I think there's still room for someone in the middle with brute strength. In an ideal world you'd have people with the strength and power to break away - the Dangerfields, Petraccas, Martins of this world - but they are hard to find. Even though he's nearing his footballing end, there were still some wonderful plays last season from Kennedy, whereby he was able to hold his ground with a couple of opponents hanging off him, and find a team mate in a great spot, or running past.

So there is a role for them, but they have to be very good.

And while JPK doesn't have explosive pace - or any pace by AFL standards - he's still fit and runs hard. So he's not limited to winning the ball in close. He can also work to find space and act as a receiver.

JPK is a very special player of many talents. His big weakness in the modern game is that he can't defend once the ball breaks from the congestion. He can't make up any ground on the opposition ball carrier.

Heeney is a powerful player with quick movements and should benefit our midfield next year. Parker, Mills, RB and Warner are all strong and offer a bit more pace, especially Warner. All are capable of being great 2 way players.

The advantage the Swans have with their midfield is the versatility of so many players being able to play both inside and out, and we should use this to our advantage next season. We should present the opposition with a lot of different looks and make it difficult to defend, because the players they will be looking for might not be there.

[COB]

Pridham doesn’t speak often, so when he does it carries weight.

Fits with a bit of what I heard and posted re the thought given to how to make a point re PSD being a stupid concept, though I am personally glad Swans did it via media commentary rather than sacrificing a pick.

In saying the Swans were dirty on him, I hadn’t heard either way re players and suggest some will just be oblivious to it.

But I was always adamant from what I was hearing - even from the Adelaide end of things - the Swans management was beyond ropeable with him. I know The Rat will never be welcome back at the Swans in any capacity. Utter persona non grata.

The leaking of the Horse conversation to make himself look good was the final straw, and seen as way beyond the pale.

Boring bagging Dawson at every opportunity. Get over it and move on. Dawson did nothing seriously wrong. If he lied big deal. He might not have wanted his intentions known till post season. That's understandable. He was uncontracted and perfectly entitled to leave for whatever reason. Notion that he owed us is garbage. Any time and effort we put into him was done to potentially benefit us not for altruistic reasons. We do not know for a fact that he deliberately leaked the meeting with Horse. Could have told someone who subsequently leaked. Plus who knows if what the media reported was even accurate. And even if he did leak it and it was accurately reported Big Whoop. Wasn't going to make any difference.
Notion of loyalty is rubbish. We offloaded a terrific player like Hannaberry because he busted and on big money. We could have kept a loyal servant like Hewett and offloaded Stephens instead or not pursued Ladhams if we needed more salary cap space. Instead we chose what was is in the best interests of the club. Can't have it both ways.
Presumably you object to players from other clubs joining us if their club wants to keep them.
Problem with the PSD has existed for years. I don't like the way it can be abused either but shouldn't whinge just because this year we were the ones hard done. Whilst I agree with what Pridham said the difficulty lies in fixing the problem.
Time to look forward to the draft ,an exciting 2022 and hopefully big crowds.
Cheer Cheer ...

[mcs]

B
Presumably you object to players from other clubs joining us if their club wants to keep them.
Problem with the PSD has existed for years. I don't like the way it can be abused either but shouldn't whinge just because this year we were the ones hard done. Whilst I agree with what Pridham said the difficulty lies in fixing the problem.
Time to look forward to the draft ,an exciting 2022 and hopefully big crowds.
Cheer Cheer ...

Why is there difficulty in fixing the problem with the PSD in regards to this issue?

Simply remove the ability for the PSD to be an avenue for an out of contract player (i.e. if they don't fall into the category of RFA/FA, or are delisted).

I.e. if a player is out of contract and not in one of those two categories, and a trade deal can not be done between his club and the desired destination, then the option to find a new club is to enter the draft proper.

Under that system, at least the destination club has to either:
1) negotiate in good faith, offering something close to actual market value so they can secure a trade deal; or
2) give up something that is likely to be close to the fair value of the player in the draft.

If they do try and pay 'way unders' during trade negotiations, then they know the risk of no deal being done and having to negotiate the perils of the draft proper to get the player. And to take that player in the draft proper, if he is of any genuine value (i.e. a very good player such as a Dawson) then they either have to give something they already have of value (i.e. trade draft picks or players to get the pick needed to take the player), or choose to use a pick for an established player rather than a youngster (i.e. give up something they could have had). I.e. There is zero way the can effectively get the player for zero real cost, as they can currently through the PSD.

Yes the 'selling' club misses out still if the player hits the draft proper, but without a genuine live option of 'I can take the player for nothing', the incentive for the destination club to simply throw scraps that significantly undervalue the player largely disappears (in most cases anyway - there will always be exceptions).

There are probably plenty of other ways to address the issue as well - but to me that is a relatively simple way to solve most of the issue, and I've thought that for a long time (well before this year, well before even we got Tippett through the PSD [although that was a much more murky situation of course due to other factors]).

[AppleCore]

Boring bagging Dawson at every opportunity. Get over it and move on. Dawson did nothing seriously wrong. If he lied big deal. He might not have wanted his intentions known till post season. That's understandable. He was uncontracted and perfectly entitled to leave for whatever reason. Notion that he owed us is garbage. Any time and effort we put into him was done to potentially benefit us not for altruistic reasons. We do not know for a fact that he deliberately leaked the meeting with Horse. Could have told someone who subsequently leaked. Plus who knows if what the media reported was even accurate. And even if he did leak it and it was accurately reported Big Whoop. Wasn't going to make any difference.
Notion of loyalty is rubbish. We offloaded a terrific player like Hannaberry because he busted and on big money. We could have kept a loyal servant like Hewett and offloaded Stephens instead or not pursued Ladhams if we needed more salary cap space. Instead we chose what was is in the best interests of the club. Can't have it both ways.
Presumably you object to players from other clubs joining us if their club wants to keep them.
Problem with the PSD has existed for years. I don't like the way it can be abused either but shouldn't whinge just because this year we were the ones hard done. Whilst I agree with what Pridham said the difficulty lies in fixing the problem.
Time to look forward to the draft ,an exciting 2022 and hopefully big crowds.
Cheer Cheer ...

You basically don't get it. The club's primary loyalty is to members and supporters and this means there goal must normally be to field the best team possible.
The club made Dawson and rewarded him handsomely, they have every right to feel bitter about his shabby behaviour.

[KSAS]

With the PSD, it's gotten to the point where I've heard a couple of media commentators suggest clubs should be ruthless exploiting the PSD in getting uncontracted players like Dawson for nothing. No trade negotiating, just get player to walk straight through to them with his club receiving nothing.

This should be a worry to the AFL that this sort of thinking is spruiking in the media. The fix is simple as mentioned above by MCS & others.

[KTigers]

With the PSD, it's gotten to the point where I've heard a couple of media commentators suggest clubs should be ruthless exploiting the PSD in getting uncontracted players like Dawson for nothing. No trade negotiating, just get player to walk straight through to them with his club receiving nothing.

This should be a worry to the AFL that this sort of thinking is spruiking in the media. The fix is simple as mentioned above by MCS & others.

Only infants think you can get something for nothing on a regular basis.

[Bangalore Swans]

You basically don't get it. The club's primary loyalty is to members and supporters and this means there goal must normally be to field the best team possible.
The club made Dawson and rewarded him handsomely, they have every right to feel bitter about his shabby behaviour.

COB gets it and I stand alongside COB in supporting COB’s opinion. COB’s post is very fair and rational.

[707]

One thing that I find mildly amusing, is that most stories on Carlton taking Hewett, claim that they did so, to get more running power into their midfield. While on the hand, I think most of us here, feel that we let Hewett go, in order to get more run into our midfield.

Carlton wanted two way run, mids that actually help defend. We are after speed as well as two way run

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Stevo, you’ve completely misinterpreted my post. Calm down.
I was referring to the situation. If we were forced to essentially give up Dawson (3rd in out B&F!) for Ladhams, that is a terrible situation and outcome for the club. Terrible.
I wasn’t ‘kicking the club while it’s down’, I love this club - hence why I frequent this forum.

Don't worry about it Blue Sun, Stevo directs his disloyal-to-the-club medley at other RWOers at regular intervals. Being subjected to one pretty much demonstrates your capacity for creative and considered thought.