2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[AB Swannie]

The PSD threat is real but overstated. Over the past 5 years, there have been around 150 players move clubs via trade. Only 2 players who have had actual trade value have been picked up in the PSD at this time and none of the value of Jordan Dawson.

My hypothesis is that there must be some unwritten rule or veiled threat from the AFL that it must not be exploited. Look at the CCJ trade between North & Richmond. That should be a no brainer for North to use the PSD but it is more likely that a reasonable trade will be made.

[lwjoyner]

surely no for ladhams at 12 and the final yr of his contract inflated. And he didnt set the world on fir as a fwd ruck particulalry in the prelim.

[0918330512]

We got Tippett in the pre-season draft and everyone passed on him and left him to us. The reason other clubs did this was that he put a big price on his head and left him alone.

The other clubs assessed his asking price and said no way. Ultimately through the deal hurt the Swans more than anyone. Apart from around 10 good games, Tippett was way overpriced and impacted our salary cap. Mumford ended up being a far more useful AFL player than Tippett and we let him go essentially for Tippett.

Pre-season draft, North will have a good look and Dawson’s price will jump. Good for Dawson but not good for the Crows.

People talk about Jack Martin going for free, but Carlton are paying big overs for his production.

Does anyone think that Adelaide have long memories over the Swans Tippett steal and now are getting their pay back through Dawson. The Crows were really upset at the time for losing Tippett for nothing.

All sorts of wrong there.

Tippet played mores than 10 good games. 2016 he was looking like one of the dominant ruckmen/forwards in the league until he injured himself.

Mumford was let go essentially for Franklin.

At the time, we had Pyke who had a season where he took the second most contested marked in the comp and his highest goal scoring output and had made good progress as a ruckman; Mummy and Tippett. Then Franklin became available. Pyke and Tippett were under contract and not broken, Mummy was coming off contract, and Franklin wanted in. So, at the time, it would seem that a future of Pyke, Tippett & Bud had more promise than Pyke, Tippett and Mummy. A twin tower forward line of Tippett/Bud (with a ruck combination of Pyke/Tippett) offered more than a forward combination of Tippett/Pyke (with a ruck combination of Mumford/Pyke). Someone had to go to fit Bud and Mummy was one of the ones coming off contract. PS we had a promising Sam Reid up forward too, so that was potentially a mouth watering 3 prong tall attack. Hindsight, shows all 5 of them were broken much of the time and the large salaries of Tippett & Bud hurt as a consequence. But when the deals were being done in anticipation, this wasn’t the case.

As for the Swans stealing Tippett, too simplistic (and thus wrong again). Tippett had opted out prior to signing his last contract with the Crows. They offered him a Godfather deal to stay and he did. Unfortunately it was funded by third party payments - from Balfurs, IIRC?. When that contract was due to expire he wanted out again “to a club of his choice”. 2 of the upsetting points of his departure were 1) he let his team mates know via text message 2) it was assumed he wanted to return home to Qld, which was palatable to supporters, but wanting away to the previous years premiers Sydney was not. They were unlikely to keep a player who wasn’t that keen prior to signing his previous contract extension. We might have the same problem if Dawson did a back flip to stay with us for 2 years to get to FA.

The PSD price hike for Dawson vs Tippett: Tippett was an emerging KPF/ruck - they don’t grow on trees. Dawson is a potential outside mid/winger/HBF with a great left foot and a strong mark - they do grow on trees (albeit maybe not to Jordan’s caliber). It was more likely that Tippett might be sniped that Dawson, so he had to be prices accordingly.

[Roadrunner]

Any interest for Jayden Hunt from Melbourne for pick 72.

Great pace and dash and would suit our game plan. Fast paced right footer running with J-Mac would be exciting.

Is Melbourne interested in trading him BS? They would be crazy to do so, and certainly not for pick 72!
He is a terrific player- would take him in a heartbeat!

[gloveski]

All sorts of wrong there.

Tippet played mores than 10 good games. 2016 he was looking like one of the dominant ruckmen/forwards in the league until he injured himself.

Mumford was let go essentially for Franklin.

At the time, we had Pyke who had a season where he took the second most contested marked in the comp and his highest goal scoring output and had made good progress as a ruckman; Mummy and Tippett. Then Franklin became available. Pyke and Tippett were under contract and not broken, Mummy was coming off contract, and Franklin wanted in. So, at the time, it would seem that a future of Pyke, Tippett & Bud had more promise than Pyke, Tippett and Mummy. A twin tower forward line of Tippett/Bud (with a ruck combination of Pyke/Tippett) offered more than a forward combination of Tippett/Pyke (with a ruck combination of Mumford/Pyke). Someone had to go to fit Bud and Mummy was one of the ones coming off contract. PS we had a promising Sam Reid up forward too, so that was potentially a mouth watering 3 prong tall attack. Hindsight, shows all 5 of them were broken much of the time and the large salaries of Tippett & Bud hurt as a consequence. But when the deals were being done in anticipation, this wasn’t the case.

As for the Swans stealing Tippett, too simplistic (and thus wrong again). Tippett had opted out prior to signing his last contract with the Crows. They offered him a Godfather deal to stay and he did. Unfortunately it was funded by third party payments - from Balfurs, IIRC?. When that contract was due to expire he wanted out again “to a club of his choice”. 2 of the upsetting points of his departure were 1) he let his team mates know via text message 2) it was assumed he wanted to return home to Qld, which was palatable to supporters, but wanting away to the previous years premiers Sydney was not. They were unlikely to keep a player who wasn’t that keen prior to signing his previous contract extension. We might have the same problem if Dawson did a back flip to stay with us for 2 years to get to FA.

The PSD price hike for Dawson vs Tippett: Tippett was an emerging KPF/ruck - they don’t grow on trees. Dawson is a potential outside mid/winger/HBF with a great left foot and a strong mark - they do grow on trees (albeit maybe not to Jordan’s caliber). It was more likely that Tippett might be sniped that Dawson, so he had to be prices accordingly.

I’m not sure players like Dawson grow on trees . The only one remotely close is Blakey on our list .
Interestingly Adelaide are also looking to play him as an inside mid . He is so versatile the ultimate utility


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[Roadrunner]

I don't think Adelaide want to take Dawson to the PSD. It doesn't look good doing it 2 years in a row. I would think that TLA, who say they represent 28% of the AFL players, would also like to be on good terms with the Swans. I think they would be pushing for Adelaide to do a fair deal as well. Everyone knows that Adelaide are coming out a winner in this trade, but it's not in anyone's interest to embarrass the Swans, who have long been fair traders. I don't think Dawson will be looking forward to the welcome he gets in his next game in Sydney.

Totally agree Ludwig. Emotionally we feel “ let him go to the draft” if Adelaide want to totally screw us over, but in reality a deal will be done. We move on- next year will be exciting!

[Bangalore Swans]

All sorts of wrong there.

Tippet played mores than 10 good games. 2016 he was looking like one of the dominant ruckmen/forwards in the league until he injured himself.

Mumford was let go essentially for Franklin.

At the time, we had Pyke who had a season where he took the second most contested marked in the comp and his highest goal scoring output and had made good progress as a ruckman; Mummy and Tippett. Then Franklin became available. Pyke and Tippett were under contract and not broken, Mummy was coming off contract, and Franklin wanted in. So, at the time, it would seem that a future of Pyke, Tippett & Bud had more promise than Pyke, Tippett and Mummy. A twin tower forward line of Tippett/Bud (with a ruck combination of Pyke/Tippett) offered more than a forward combination of Tippett/Pyke (with a ruck combination of Mumford/Pyke). Someone had to go to fit Bud and Mummy was one of the ones coming off contract. PS we had a promising Sam Reid up forward too, so that was potentially a mouth watering 3 prong tall attack. Hindsight, shows all 5 of them were broken much of the time and the large salaries of Tippett & Bud hurt as a consequence. But when the deals were being done in anticipation, this wasn’t the case.

As for the Swans stealing Tippett, too simplistic (and thus wrong again). Tippett had opted out prior to signing his last contract with the Crows. They offered him a Godfather deal to stay and he did. Unfortunately it was funded by third party payments - from Balfurs, IIRC?. When that contract was due to expire he wanted out again “to a club of his choice”. 2 of the upsetting points of his departure were 1) he let his team mates know via text message 2) it was assumed he wanted to return home to Qld, which was palatable to supporters, but wanting away to the previous years premiers Sydney was not. They were unlikely to keep a player who wasn’t that keen prior to signing his previous contract extension. We might have the same problem if Dawson did a back flip to stay with us for 2 years to get to FA.

The PSD price hike for Dawson vs Tippett: Tippett was an emerging KPF/ruck - they don’t grow on trees. Dawson is a potential outside mid/winger/HBF with a great left foot and a strong mark - they do grow on trees (albeit maybe not to Jordan’s caliber). It was more likely that Tippett might be sniped that Dawson, so he had to be prices accordingly.

I’m very sorry:

Tippett was paid huge money from the Swans. For the money that Tippett was paid, you expect Max Gawn like performance over 25 games a year. In his first year he was suspended for the first 10 games. He was good for the 2nd half of 2013. Still only half the season at what should be his production.

He didn’t pay his wages in 2014 or 2015 apart from a couple of good games here and there. I remember vividly in the 2014 GF that Brian Lake destroyed him in the one on ones. For the sort of money he was paid, he needed to be winning those one on ones. Brian Lake was a very good footballer.

You mention the wonderful performance of 2016, but still only half a season.

People say, he was unlucky with injuries. Your body is your tool. You can’t get your body going properly, it’s on you.

One of the reasons I love American Sports is that you can cut a guy like Tippett if he can’t produce what he’s paid. He never produced what he’s paid.

The Swans overpaid because the PSD was a threat to his recruitment.

As for Mumford being cut for Franklin, I don’t agree. Tippett sucked a lot of money and Franklin was paid lower than Tippett in his early years. Mumford was deemed expendable due to Tippett and Pyke. Mumford went to the Giants and proved like John Rambo that he was not expendable.

[mcs]

People say, he was unlucky with injuries. Your body is your tool. You can’t get your body going properly, it’s on you.

One of the reasons I love American Sports is that you can cut a guy like Tippett if he can’t produce what he’s paid. He never produced what he’s paid.

The Swans overpaid because the PSD was a threat to his recruitment.

As for Mumford being cut for Franklin, I don’t agree. Tippett sucked a lot of money and Franklin was paid lower than Tippett in his early years. Mumford was deemed expendable due to Tippett and Pyke. Mumford went to the Giants and proved like John Rambo that he was not expendable.

You really do prefer to see players considered solely as a commodity don't you BS?

I don't agree that it is always 'on you' if you can't get your body properly right for professional sport.

Plenty of players for whatever reason have bodies that simply can't put up with the rigour of playing professional sport. No matter how professional, how dedicated, how correct they are at doing everything they can to prepare it, it simply can't hack it.

Of course there are some that don't do the right thing and therefore don't help themselves. But there are plenty that do exactly the right things, do everything they can to maximise their chances, but their body just can't hack it. Perfect example is Alex Johnson - how was his wretched run with injuries exactly 'on him' per say?

[AB Swannie]

It's a shame we haven't been able to get into bed with the Suns over the years. They really are generous traders when the situation is right.

[gloveski]

I’m very sorry:

Tippett was paid huge money from the Swans. For the money that Tippett was paid, you expect Max Gawn like performance over 25 games a year. In his first year he was suspended for the first 10 games. He was good for the 2nd half of 2013. Still only half the season at what should be his production.

He didn’t pay his wages in 2014 or 2015 apart from a couple of good games here and there. I remember vividly in the 2014 GF that Brian Lake destroyed him in the one on ones. For the sort of money he was paid, he needed to be winning those one on ones. Brian Lake was a very good footballer.

You mention the wonderful performance of 2016, but still only half a season.

People say, he was unlucky with injuries. Your body is your tool. You can’t get your body going properly, it’s on you.

One of the reasons I love American Sports is that you can cut a guy like Tippett if he can’t produce what he’s paid. He never produced what he’s paid.

The Swans overpaid because the PSD was a threat to his recruitment.

As for Mumford being cut for Franklin, I don’t agree. Tippett sucked a lot of money and Franklin was paid lower than Tippett in his early years. Mumford was deemed expendable due to Tippett and Pyke. Mumford went to the Giants and proved like John Rambo that he was not expendable.

I like some of your comments BS but this is absolute dribble .
“ You can’t get your body going properly, it’s on you”

Many a great player has been cut down by injury and has had their body let them down it’s definitely not on them , for some players it’s genetics or simply bad luck .
Athletes all around the world don’t get the chance to reach their potential due to injury . Sport can be brutal on the human body .

Out of interest have you ever actually played a game of any sport in your life ?


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[gloveski]

It's a shame we haven't been able to get into bed with the Suns over the years. They really are generous traders when the situation is right.

Agree that shinny pick 19 looked tempting .


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[Roadrunner]

It's a shame we haven't been able to get into bed with the Suns over the years. They really are generous traders when the situation is right.

It may just due to us not being a ruthless, heartless club, like some Victorians, and don’t want to exploit a young club.

There is limited satisfaction if you achieve success by raping a struggling club, and I for one am glad that we haven’t done so. We achieve success by fair trading and a great recruiting team, reflecting our Bloods Culture. Very proud of the fact that we have not acted like vultures, unlike some others.

[AB Swannie]

It may just due to us not being a ruthless, heartless club, like some Victorians, and don’t want to exploit a young club.

There is limited satisfaction if you achieve success by raping a struggling club, and I for one am glad that we haven’t done so. We achieve success by fair trading and a great recruiting team, reflecting our Bloods Culture. Very proud of the fact that we have not acted like vultures, unlike some others.

I am talking more about the generosity in picks they give rather than the players. Because the AFL have given them so many concession picks they can give them away easier.

[southsideswan]

I read that Crows do not want to part with pick 4 for Dawson. Surely it is not that cut and dry. We have pick 12. Cant there be a multiple picks either way to get the balance for both Clubs? It appears (from reading .. doing a lot of that) that we are not going heavy in the draft and relying more on development of what we have.

[waswan]

At the time, we had Pyke who had a season where he took the second most contested marked in the comp and his highest goal scoring output and had made good progress as a ruckman; Mummy and Tippett. Then Franklin became available. Pyke and Tippett were under contract and not broken, Mummy was coming off contract, and Franklin wanted in. So, at the time, it would seem that a future of Pyke, Tippett & Bud had more promise than Pyke, Tippett and Mummy. A twin tower forward line of Tippett/Bud (with a ruck combination of Pyke/Tippett) offered more than a forward combination of Tippett/Pyke (with a ruck combination of Mumford/Pyke). Someone had to go to fit Bud and Mummy was one of the ones coming off contract.

A very often overlooked point about how good Pyke was playing.

Mummy the GF sub due to a hammy and GWS had huge coin afterissing out on Buddy, were offering way more then we were and could.

When you have 25% more salary cap paying overs for Mummy wasnt an issue. No other team came for Mummy either.