2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[wolftone57]

When the time does come to evaluate Buddy's career at the Swans, both the cost and the benefit will need to be taken into consideration. I think more RWOers are coming to recognise that to be the case, than when he was recruited.

Yes I think so. It was the conundrum at the time. Do you go for the best player in the AFL no matter what the cost? Of course you do. A no brainer. But the cost of that was Shane Mumford, losing middle talent like Membrey, Newman, eventually top end talent, although past his best, Hannas, and having to move Jones, Rohan, Aliir and Hewett on.

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[707]

I think that was a temporary measure, and that the language used in the article was a bit misleading. They were elevated to the "non Cat B rookie" list temporarily as there were players on the LTIL. That meant they were eligible to play senior footy during that season.

I have no idea who is on which list right now, and it's not helped by the blurring of the senior and Cat A rookie lists, but I believe Wicks spent last year as a Cat A rookie and O'Connor as a Cat B rookie.

As I said earlier, not worth bothering trying to figure it all out, too much grey and unknown. When the final draft order is issued, that will tell us exactly how many we have on the senior list, AFL give you a draft pick for every senior list spot that is vacant.

As for Paddy McCartin, it doesn't matter contract wise which list he goes on, it would be a one year contract, maybe with trigger clauses and he won't be signed until after all the drafts are done.

[dejavoodoo44]

Our academy nominations for the draft:

Angus Anderson
William Edwards
Kye Pfrengle
Liam Puncher
Felix Rogers
Pierce Roseby.

Most of us would have read the profiles of Anderson. I think I was impressed by Edwards, in an early season academy game. IIRC, he's a raw KPF, who has a booming kick. I also thought he had a touch of Barry Hall about him. Unfortunately, I think that he got injured and may not have played another academy game.

Pfrengle was also injured early in the season, but before that, he may have been the academy player most likely to be drafted. Classy player in both attack and defence. Puncher can also play at both ends. Rogers is a tough, mainly inside midfielder. And Roseby is also a midfielder, who did well in a couple of VFL games, when he got a chance.

[Steve]

2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

I'm confused. If the Swans were willing to offer 31, 39 and 70 for pick 23, why would they be concerned about Geelong offering 32 and 50?

Because of what the respective offers include from the Bulldogs:

Our Offer
31, 39 & 70 for 23 & 52

Geelong Offer
32 & 50 for 23

That offer from Geelong is slightly better to the Bulldogs than ours.

Us offering 31 & 39 (or Geelong a couple of their picks in the 30’s) is too much to outlay for 23 - so we would want 52 back to balance it out whilst still being a net points benefit to the Bulldogs.

[Maltopia]

For those who are across our Rookie list spot availability, after we possibly take Anderson at 70, are there any other academy players we would consider taking in the Rookie draft or with pick 88?

[Thunder Shaker]

For those who are across our Rookie list spot availability, after we possibly take Anderson at 70, are there any other academy players we would consider taking in the Rookie draft or with pick 88?

Sydney has nominated six Academy players. See list here: Every Academy, father-son nomination (afl.com.au)

[Aprilbr]

Sydney has nominated six Academy players. See list here: Every Academy, father-son nomination (afl.com.au)

Somehow I don't think we will be taking six of them but it sounds like Angry is a big chance to get picked up by us or someone else. GWS look like they are in a strong position to pick up elite interstate players and they also have great Academy selection possibilities. We have a much more modest set of selections and options than them, so this draft will be a real test of the ability of our recruiting guys to find diamonds in the rough.

[Thunder Shaker]

The final draft order (afl.com.au) is in.

Sydney has these picks: 16, 31, 39, 69, 84, 89. The last pick is in round 6 of the draft.

Four clubs have selections in round 6 (Gold Coast, Adelaide and Essendon are the other clubs) and two clubs have round 7 selections (Gold Coast and Essendon). Essendon has the last pick at 91. Every club has three selections or more to comply with the AFL's draft rules.

Not all draft selections will be used. In addition to bid matching, some clubs will pass on their selections so they can use picks in the rookie or pre-season drafts.

I expect Sydney will pass on the last pick (to recruit Paddy McCartin), and to use pick 69 or pick 84 to draft Anderson if he hasn't been recruited earlier.

[rb4x]

The final draft order is now out and I am a little bit surprised that Sydney has six selections available seeing we only lost five players off our senior list. Dawson, Hewett, Brand, Ling and Taylor have been delisted with a committment to redraft Taylor as rookie. Gray and Carruthers are the other two gone from our rookie list. We must be keeping our options open to promoting one or two of the rookies to the senior list otherwise by my reckoning we will only have one vacancy on our rookie list. We probably would prefer to take Anderson as a rookie but are keeping our options open to match if bid on him comes in the National draft.

[liz]

The final draft order is now out and I am a little bit surprised that Sydney has six selections available seeing we only lost five players off our senior list. Dawson, Hewett, Brand, Ling and Taylor have been delisted with a committment to redraft Taylor as rookie. Gray and Carruthers are the other two gone from our rookie list. We must be keeping our options open to promoting one or two of the rookies to the senior list otherwise by my reckoning we will only have one vacancy on our rookie list. We probably would prefer to take Anderson as a rookie but are keeping our options open to match if bid on him comes in the National draft.

I can't recall when the Swans last went into a season with a full size senior list, preferring instead to have more rookies. In most years I think we've run with 38 senior players (now 36), the fewest possible, though there might have been one year where we had 39.

The picks the AFL allocates assumes the maximum size list, so gives us at least two more than we will use. If we've lost five players from our senior list (that you list) but gained one (Ladhams), that's a net change of four. Add on the two surplus picks and that equates to the six picks we've been allocated.

Unless there's a big change of heart, you can almost guarantee the last two picks won't be used, regardless of McCartin and/or Anderson. But it's also likely that the fourth pick won't be used either, particularly if they have agreed to put McCartin on the senior list. Or if they intend to upgrade a rookie (or two). Although the two lists are blurred in most respects, there are still rules about how long players can stay on a rookie list. An extra year's been granted going into 2022, but we still have Wicks, McLean, Amartey who can't stay on the rookie list beyond 2022 so I think they'll think about promoting one of them this year.

[Thunder Shaker]

I would like to examine the scenarios for matching a bid on Anderson in the later rounds.

What are the rules here? Have they changed substantially since the 2015 rules? (afl.com.au)

So far as I can tell, the rules give a fixed 197-point discount for bids after pick 18.

We have pick 69. This is currently worth 49 points. 197 + 49 = 246 points. Pick 52 is worth 246 points. So we can match at bid 52 or later with pick 69 without issues. To simplify the example, I'm ignoring the large number of picks that will be used up in father-son bid matching, and a couple of picks that will be used up for NGA prospects.

What if Anderson is bid on earlier? I'm trying to work out the range of picks where a bid on Anderson may give us a 2022 points deficit, and how large such a deficit could be. A bid in the 40s could be problematic. Will we do a live pick trade in that scenario, or would we just take the points deficit? What would be the effect of such a deficit?

[liz]

I've moved a chunk of posts that discuss current and ongoing players out of this trading and drafting thread and into the Best 22 for 2022 thread.

[bloodspirit]

Simon Dalrymple is on the latest NSW/ACT AFL podcast

https://aflnswact.com.au/podcast/

Interview with Dalrymple starts about 14:45.

* The appeal of moving to the Swans for Dalrymple was being unhappy at the Bulldogs after falling out with Beveridge and his connection with KB. 4 full-time recruiters at the Swans and about 15 "pretty much volunteers" around Australia. Depth of talent in NSW/ACT is improving. The Academy model for developing local talent is very effective.

* Regarding kids drafted by Dalrymple: mixed results. McInerney has been a great success. Rowbottom is "going really well". Dylan Stephens has had a challenging couple of years - next year is a really important season for him. He needs to put together a block of work. Need patience with key forwards like McDonald.

* Swans strategy this year's draft is "pretty simple" - pick best player available for "early selections". List is fairly well balanced. Key defenders "are always difficult to find". You need depth of midfielders. JPK is going well but "getting older" so want to keep building that part of the ground [i.e. the midfield].

* Encourages players to work on clean ball handling, good skills, no fumbling - "it gives you a chance to exercise your skills". Keep challenging yourself at a lower level not to be satisfied with fumbling at lower levels.

[TheBloods]

Interview with Dalrymple starts about 14:45.

* The appeal of moving to the Swans for Dalrymple was being unhappy at the Bulldogs after falling out with Beveridge and his connection with KB. 4 full-time recruiters at the Swans and about 15 "pretty much volunteers" around Australia. Depth of talent in NSW/ACT is improving. The Academy model for developing local talent is very effective.

* Regarding kids drafted by Dalrymple: mixed results. McInerney has been a great success. Rowbottom is "going really well". Dylan Stephens has had a challenging couple of years - next year is a really important season for him. He needs to put together a block of work. Need patience with key forwards like McDonald.

* Swans strategy this year's draft is "pretty simple" - pick best player available for "early selections". List is fairly well balanced. Key defenders "are always difficult to find". You need depth of midfielders. JPK is going well but "getting older" so want to keep building that part of the ground [i.e. the midfield].

* Encourages players to work on clean ball handling, good skills, no fumbling - "it gives you a chance to exercise your skills". Keep challenging yourself at a lower level not to be satisfied with fumbling at lower levels.

Thank you

[Thunder Shaker]

Somehow I don't think we will be taking six of them but it sounds like Angry is a big chance to get picked up by us or someone else. GWS look like they are in a strong position to pick up elite interstate players and they also have great Academy selection possibilities. We have a much more modest set of selections and options than them, so this draft will be a real test of the ability of our recruiting guys to find diamonds in the rough.

I agree, there's no way we will be drafting that many. So far as I can tell, that's the number of players who have nominated for the draft.

I'm expecting Anderson to be recruited with a late pick.

It would get more interesting if other players are also bid on. I doubt we would match. However, that's not a problem as that is what the Northern Academies are supposed to do: provide a pathway to play in the AFL.