2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[NeonBible]

Who cares what melbourne did

Their midfield is very different to richmond who won the 3 flags before it and you can bet the next team to win a flag will have a different set up entirely No one beats the reigning premiers at their own game , they always beat them with a game of their own that the reigning premiers aren't prepared for ! . There is no right way to have a midfield . We need to shape the midfield around the weapons we have . They will be :

Mills, Chad, Jmac, Gulden, Florent, Campbell , Stephens ???

For the sake of this im not including Parker because by the time all of the above are in the mids he 'll be in his 30s and probably playing more fwd or wing .

Mills should be inside , the one at the coalface and the bottom of the pack winning the hard ball , doesnt need to be pretty , but hes got enormous strength , bloody brute and he is big bodied too and hard to tackle .

He will get it to the explosive two , Chad and Campbell .. these are strong boys who are built like short stocky units , (once Campbell puts some muscle on he will have a similar shape to Chad ) , these boys will be the ones we will want winning it in congestion and then breaking away from congestion with speed and power .They will be our best hopes of seeing clean centre breaks and goals on the run from those centre breaks , like we saw with Chad at the G against the Tigers .

We will then have Jmac and Gulden work from the inside to the outside to get the handball receive , they are fast with great tanks so can work their way into the clear and use the space . You watch every time one of Chad or Campbell get an inside 50 on the run , you will see one of Jmac or Gulden waiting in the wings for the handball just in case . Melbourne dont have this , they had Harmes and Brayshaw playing that role waiting on the outside to get the receive but they arent as quick or as great kicks as Chad and particularly Campbell are .

Florent and Stephens make up the depth . Ive not seen enough from Florent to say he 'll be a sure thing , and we know that Stephens isnt yet as he did little this year, but they both have the inside /outside game to suit the above set up if they can pull their fingers out .

Not being a know it all , just giving my view on what i would do with the players we have at our disposal . We 've gone to the draft how many times now and built our midfield through it , so we obviously have a plan to bring them all together and make it work . The above is just the best way i see that working , keen to hear others thoughts , not being a know it all or trying to say im right

Interesting thoughts TB! You needn't worry that anyone will think you're a know it all. You made interesting observations about our players and tactics and there were no personal attacks or insults. I believe that's all anyone has ever asked of you!

Your point about the Dees midfield being different from the Tigers was an excellent one. Two almost completely polar opposite midfields win flags one year apart.. the Tigers lacked a dominant ruck and conceded clearances and territory from the middle; the Dees have the most dominant ruck of the last five years and rely heavily on their clearance work and scores from centre bounces.. It goes to show there's more than one ways to skin a cat!

The Chad & Campbell comparison was also an astute one. I hadn't thought of young Braeden as someone who would be a diminutive but stocky bull, but that may be what he becomes when he gets bigger and stronger, and that is where Chad currently is! Could we see it as soon as next year? Doubtful, but then no one probably saw Chad having the second year he went on to have! I look forward to years of those two blistering away from packs!

Finally, your point regarding Juzzy and Gulden.. you may also be spot on about this. It would be a very tantalising prospect to have them start on the inside, let the "bulls" like Mills and The Chad attract the opposition pressure, and then have Juzzy and Gulden sneak to the outside where they can use their hard running and sublime foot skills to distribute!

An excellent summation of what could be a brilliant midfield group!! The only notes I would disagree with you on, are that I think Florent already has proven his worth as an inside/outside mid, though I would like to see it more regularly, and I also think you are under-estimating the contribution Parker could still make to the midfield into his 30s. If you have Mills as the primary "bull" at the coalface (with The Chad and Campbell ready to explode away on the end of his grunt work) then wouldn't it be prudent to have a second player who can do Mills' role to support him?? Might that be Parker? By that age he would be slower and maybe his skill level reduced, but he would be all ticker and you yourself said that it's not a pretty role, it is just hard work and scrapping for the ball. Parker would do that til he couldn't physically do it any longer!

[i'm-uninformed2]

I don’t disagree with much of this or TBs post.

FWIW, I wasn’t wanting to say we had to play like the Dees. Every side plays to its strength and seeks to minimise its weaknesses. For example, I’d say the Dees have better handball skills in tight but our mix has better foot skills. It was more about making a generic point that our midfield rebuild is on track, bar ruck.

One player you both omitted from conversation and analysis was Heeney. My own view is he’s better starting around the ball, preferably off a wing, and then drifting forward. Curious as to how you see him.

The other thing your post gets at is need for another inside grunt player. And by that, the bloke who in serious heat can get the clean handball away. JPK was a genius. Mills is phenomenal. I think Parker has a few good years of that left. I think Rowbottom can do it (though let’s not blow up the thread).

If you’ve got assets around that like some of those mentioned, it’s a sensational group.

[MattW]

This is clearly way over the top but if Carlton pay that then we don't have much to get back for Hewett!

Its crazy Dawson finished 3rd in the B&F but the Melbourne media think Dawson is a 'good ordinary player'

Any under-rating of Dawson by a journo is a tell that they didn't watch our games this year.

[barry]

If Dawson was at another club he'd be our top priority to try and get:
He's young,
He's an excellent kick.
He just came 3rd in their B&F.

We should meet moving heaven and earth to keep him.

- - - Updated - - -

It's another failure of list management of we lose him. Just like Mitchell.

[i'm-uninformed2]

If Dawson was at another club he'd be our top priority to try and get:
He's young,
He's an excellent kick.
He just came 3rd in their B&F.

We should meet moving heaven and earth to keep him.

- - - Updated - - -

It's another failure of list management of we lose him. Just like Mitchell.

We did. Unlike Mitchell, who we decided to let go as a sacrifice for keeping Mills and Heeney, we offered Dawson 5 years at $600K apparently. He decided he wanted to go have his mum’s home cooking anyway.

[Aprilbr]

Trade Radio

"Jordan Dawson is one of the best kicks in the competition. I think Pick 23 is not enough, somewhere in the teens feels about right."

Matthew Lloyd

[Nico]

I don’t disagree with much of this or TBs post.

FWIW, I wasn’t wanting to say we had to play like the Dees. Every side plays to its strength and seeks to minimise its weaknesses. For example, I’d say the Dees have better handball skills in tight but our mix has better foot skills. It was more about making a generic point that our midfield rebuild is on track, bar ruck.

One player you both omitted from conversation and analysis was Heeney. My own view is he’s better starting around the ball, preferably off a wing, and then drifting forward. Curious as to how you see him.

The other thing your post gets at is need for another inside grunt player. And by that, the bloke who in serious heat can get the clean handball away. JPK was a genius. Mills is phenomenal. I think Parker has a few good years of that left. I think Rowbottom can do it (though let’s not blow up the thread).

If you’ve got assets around that like some of those mentioned, it’s a sensational group.

Melbourne is the one club I have seen that worked the 6-6-6 rule to a tee. They had the right people in the midfield for the quick clearance and the forward combo to take advantage. Fritsch came to the fore with his quick leads and positioning. He is almost a small forward. They overran Geelong in the last game simply because they exploded from the middle. Contrast us who are intent on holding and blocking. Strewth we have Buddy, Paps and Heeney in the starting forward 6 but we are unable to extract the ball quickly into the forward line. It drove me crazy watching during the season when time and again we allowed the opposition, without any pressure, to take the footy away from the guts. People are waiting for Heeney to be a superstar but what hope has he got when we allow the opposition to get back in numbers. Even in general play when we burst off half back or through the midfield we go sideways.

Surely the likes of Buddy, Paps and Heeney are leading sometimes and not always statues.

We can talk ourselves silly about drafting and trading but get this part of our game right and we will always be a threat with our current personnel.

[Roadrunner]

If Dawson was at another club he'd be our top priority to try and get:
He's young,
He's an excellent kick.
He just came 3rd in their B&F.

We should meet moving heaven and earth to keep him.

- - - Updated - - -

It's another failure of list management of we lose him. Just like Mitchell.

A bit harsh Barry- I believe the club made him a pretty attractive offer. It seems the Crows were able to offer a fair bit more, coupled with the closer to home factor. Unfortunately money talks and we only have a certain amount in the kitty and need to spread the love. We are all sorry to lose him, but once a player’s head is turned, we are not in a strong position if he is out of contract. This was illustrated by the Paps situation.

You buy real estate a hell of a lot cheaper in Adelaide- but pity about your old mates, as you will make new ones. Obviously he doesn’t love our club enough to put the above factors to one side, which is sad but we just have to accept that not all players are equally committed. I don’t blame players for chasing money- they have a relatively short window to earn the big bucks, but I’m sure our club offered Jordan the best deal they possibly could.

[Roadrunner]

Melbourne is the one club I have seen that worked the 6-6-6 rule to a tee. They had the right people in the midfield for the quick clearance and the forward combo to take advantage. Fritsch came to the fore with his quick leads and positioning. He is almost a small forward. They overran Geelong in the last game simply because they exploded from the middle. Contrast us who are intent on holding and blocking. Strewth we have Buddy, Paps and Heeney in the starting forward 6 but we are unable to extract the ball quickly into the forward line. It drove me crazy watching during the season when time and again we allowed the opposition, without any pressure, to take the footy away from the guts. People are waiting for Heeney to be a superstar but what hope has he got when we allow the opposition to get back in numbers. Even in general play when we burst off half back or through the midfield we go sideways.

Surely the likes of Buddy, Paps and Heeney are leading sometimes and not always statues.

We can talk ourselves silly about drafting and trading but get this part of our game right and we will always be a threat with our current personnel.

I think our emerging mids will be much better next year Nico and gain that split second which is all it takes to win the ball in the guts. Then our forwards can lead and not try to mark the ball in a pack, which is not playing to our strength as only Heaney is elite overhead. The other factor is that they tend to lead to the pockets which results in low percentage scoring. We had an awful lot of shots on goal from severe angles as our forwards kept leading to the pockets. This needs to be rectified by the coaches as none of our forwards are consistently accurate kicks from out wide.

[barry]

A bit harsh Barry- I believe the club made him a pretty attractive offer. It seems the Crows were able to offer a fair bit more, coupled with the closer to home factor. Unfortunately money talks and we only have a certain amount in the kitty and need to spread the love. We are all sorry to lose him, but once a player’s head is turned, we are not in a strong position if he is out of contract. This was illustrated by the Paps situation.

You buy real estate a hell of a lot cheaper in Adelaide- but pity about your old mates, as you will make new ones. Obviously he doesn’t love our club enough to put the above factors to one side, which is sad but we just have to accept that not all players are equally committed. I don’t blame players for chasing money- they have a relatively short window to earn the big bucks, but I’m sure our club offered Jordan the best deal they possibly could.

Not harsh at all. We need to be a destination club. Thats what sorts the Richmonds from the Gold Coasts. Losing dawson is akin to Gold coast losing May or Lynch, and puts any serious premiership aspirations in doubt in the next few years.

To be a destination club we need to work out what it takes to keep players like Dawson. It can be more money, or it can be a host of other things. I dont care. We just need to make it happen. Losing him, after all the others weve lost over the past 8 years sends a very bad signal.

[i'm-uninformed2]

Melbourne is the one club I have seen that worked the 6-6-6 rule to a tee. They had the right people in the midfield for the quick clearance and the forward combo to take advantage. Fritsch came to the fore with his quick leads and positioning. He is almost a small forward. They overran Geelong in the last game simply because they exploded from the middle. Contrast us who are intent on holding and blocking. Strewth we have Buddy, Paps and Heeney in the starting forward 6 but we are unable to extract the ball quickly into the forward line. It drove me crazy watching during the season when time and again we allowed the opposition, without any pressure, to take the footy away from the guts. People are waiting for Heeney to be a superstar but what hope has he got when we allow the opposition to get back in numbers. Even in general play when we burst off half back or through the midfield we go sideways.

Surely the likes of Buddy, Paps and Heeney are leading sometimes and not always statues.

We can talk ourselves silly about drafting and trading but get this part of our game right and we will always be a threat with our current personnel.

I think this is fair enough and I’d put it down to two things.

Half a second makes the world of difference in the guts. If you’re a fraction more on the back foot because you’ve got inferior rucks or because you’ve got a slightly slower midfield mix of JPK, Parker and Hewett - which has largely been our lot prior to this year - you’re instantly behind the eight ball.

This part of our game has a way to go, but improved at times because we had a bit more confidence with Hick, and rolled players like Chad, even Paps and JMac at time, etc through there. We will get better as our younger, more dynamic types can spend more time in the centre square.

[Markwebbos]

Not harsh at all. We need to be a destination club. Thats what sorts the Richmonds from the Gold Coasts. Losing dawson is akin to Gold coast losing May or Lynch, and puts any serious premiership aspirations in doubt in the next few years.

To be a destination club we need to work out what it takes to keep players like Dawson. It can be more money, or it can be a host of other things. I dont care. We just need to make it happen. Losing him, after all the others weve lost over the past 8 years sends a very bad signal.

Hey Barry, could you name any "destination clubs"? You cite Richmond who lost players last year and will lose Chol and CCJ this year. By your reckoning they are surely NOT a DC.

[Blood Fever]

Melbourne is the one club I have seen that worked the 6-6-6 rule to a tee. They had the right people in the midfield for the quick clearance and the forward combo to take advantage. Fritsch came to the fore with his quick leads and positioning. He is almost a small forward. They overran Geelong in the last game simply because they exploded from the middle. Contrast us who are intent on holding and blocking. Strewth we have Buddy, Paps and Heeney in the starting forward 6 but we are unable to extract the ball quickly into the forward line. It drove me crazy watching during the season when time and again we allowed the opposition, without any pressure, to take the footy away from the guts. People are waiting for Heeney to be a superstar but what hope has he got when we allow the opposition to get back in numbers. Even in general play when we burst off half back or through the midfield we go sideways.

Surely the likes of Buddy, Paps and Heeney are leading sometimes and not always statues.

We can talk ourselves silly about drafting and trading but get this part of our game right and we will always be a threat with our current personnel.

We have been poor in centre square clearances for a long time. I would take a break even stat every day of the week with our forward line which is at least the equal of the Demons.

[The Runner]

Dawson is leaving a club that is on the verge of entering a window of contention, for a club that has shown no major signs of being near that for some time. And for a comparable wage.
So, it's safe to say that it's a force driving him to go home today Sydney can't contend with.

Plenty of players have done similar in the past. Tim Kelly probably a good example of leaving a club in contention. Although, he probably thought he was going somewhere a bit more competitive than how it's panned out.

[AB Swannie]

If Dawson was at another club he'd be our top priority to try and get:
He's young,
He's an excellent kick.
He just came 3rd in their B&F.

We should meet moving heaven and earth to keep him.

- - - Updated - - -

It's another failure of list management of we lose him. Just like Mitchell.

I would think that you’ve been around long enough to realise that we have been enormously competitive over the past 20 years hardly ever missing finals and have won 1.5 flags. Our list management has been spectacular. Dawson is the only player I can think of who is in our top 5 players that we really wanted to keep. His decision to leave is not down to list management but is all on Dawson.