Match Thread. Swans v Geelong.

[Bangalore Swans]

This is a bad idea. Australian football is much more free-flowing than the various sports where such a system exists. Cricket is played ball by ball. American football is structured around plays that have breaks in between.

To see why it is a bad idea, consider that the clock is running. What happens if a DRS overturns a decision? Does the time get restored? What if the siren sounded in the meantime? How would they unsound the siren? What if it's the end of a Grand Final and the DRS decision is dubious?

We need something to change. I’m sure the professional minds on the rules committee could come up with a coaches call DRS. Maybe it’s limited to one per game.

Too often a bad call in AFL changes the momentum of a game and by default the game.

The only reason why there is not more support on this forum for the DRS is that the Swans through Cameron and Rowbottom got away with two crucial decisions. The Swans got away with another crucial decision with Rampe being Spider-Man. Some of these crucial decisions will go against the Swans.

DRS implementation needs to be ready for 2022 and Razor needs to be running the DRS bunker.

[Bloods05]

We need something to change.

No, we do not need something to change. Umpiring mistakes are and always have been part of the game. They go both ways, always have. Review systems are not perfect either, mistakes are made there too. Sure we get angry when mistakes go against us, but that is not the point. There may be an issue if the overall standard of umpiring were terrible, but it isn't, and if it were, the way to deal with that is to give them better training. Even the best umpires make mistakes. Footy is a human activity. It will never be perfect, and the attempt to make it so detracts from the human drama of it.

This is a non-issue.

[stevoswan]

Now this from this Alistair Nicholson article on ABC News Online headlined 'Richmond Go From Hunted To Hunter etc'. I won't put link up as it freezes the thread.

Karma comes for the Cats

It's fair to say if you were a golf professional, you wouldn't want an AFL umpire for a caddy. Judging yardage just isn't their forte. Coaching great David Parkin often says Aussie rules is the world's toughest game to officiate, and I agree the umpires largely do an excellent job in very difficult circumstances.

But the 15-metre kick is the most poorly adjudicated rule in the game, with marks routinely paid when the ball travelled no further than a 20-foot putt.

The usually generous assessment of distance made Saturday night's howler at the SCG all the more conspicuous.

In this instance, the umpires badly underestimated the length of Brad Close's kick across the goal mouth in the dying moments of the clash with Sydney.

The AFL on Sunday confirmed Jeremy Cameron should have been paid a mark in the right forward pocket, giving him the chance to be a hero in just his second game for the Cats. Cameron still needed to bend the ball through from a tight angle but, as a left-footer, there was every chance.

Seconds later, the Cats should also have been awarded a holding-the-ball free kick directly in front when James Rowbottom leapt on the ball, was tackled by Joel Selwood and made no effort to dispose of it. It was blatant."

I have sent a complaint to the ABC.

[Legs Akimbo]

No, we do not need something to change. Umpiring mistakes are and always have been part of the game. They go both ways, always have. Review systems are not perfect either, mistakes are made there too. Sure we get angry when mistakes go against us, but that is not the point. There may be an issue if the overall standard of umpiring were terrible, but it isn't, and if it were, the way to deal with that is to give them better training. Even the best umpires make mistakes. Footy is a human activity. It will never be perfect, and the attempt to make it so detracts from the human drama of it.

This is a non-issue.

Umpires make mistakes and that's fine, but what if they make mistakes systematically due to implicit biases...

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262891562_Australian_Football_League_home_advantage_umpire_bias_or_both

Purpose ? This study sought to clarify potentially conflicting results from two prior studies examining the "home advantage", and possible "umpire bias", in the Australian Football League (AFL). Design/methodology/approach ? Using categorical regression analysis, and controlling for team ability, the number of free kicks awarded to/against each AFL team during the home and away season of 2006 was investigated. Findings ? The findings support previous research suggesting home teams generally win more often and receive more favourable treatment from umpires. However, for games involving both a Victorian and a non-Victorian team, there is clear evidence of "umpire bias" (beyond the traditional "home advantage") operating against non-Victorian teams. Research limitations/implications ? A major limitation of this study is that it only considers the number of free kicks awarded and not where, or when, those free kicks are awarded. Practical implications ? The findings suggest that the AFL should seriously consider appointing neutral umpires for all games (particularly those involving a Victorian and non-Victorian team) and establishing an independent panel to oversee the development and selection of AFL umpires. Originality/value ? This is the first study of potential "bias" in the AFL that controls for team ability and, as such, helps to reconcile conflicting conclusions from two prior studies.

In fact, this analysis only captures half the problem in that it doesn't capture the free kicks not award. Yes, I am a (very) biased observer, but my observation is that for whatever reason, over the last 10 years, we have been systematically officiated against. I have NFI why.

Interested in the data? https://afltables.com/afl/stats/frees.html#2020

If you want to froth at the mouth, check out the Bulldogs. I simply cannot accept that they play game sufficiently differently to create a consistent 10-20% free differential year in and year out.

So the AFL would be better off focusing on understanding why this happens and enlightening all of us.

[Bangalore Swans]

No, we do not need something to change. Umpiring mistakes are and always have been part of the game. They go both ways, always have. Review systems are not perfect either, mistakes are made there too. Sure we get angry when mistakes go against us, but that is not the point. There may be an issue if the overall standard of umpiring were terrible, but it isn't, and if it were, the way to deal with that is to give them better training. Even the best umpires make mistakes. Footy is a human activity. It will never be perfect, and the attempt to make it so detracts from the human drama of it.

This is a non-issue.

It would certainly ad to the crowd or telivised drama. Can you imagine Longmire calling for the DRS on a holding the ball decision and the Swans crowd watching replay on the screen and starting to erupt when it clearly looks like the Swans are going to win the DRS for holding the ball instead of conceding a goal. How exciting.

What about the commentators saying “he has to use the DRS there” or “was that decision crucial enough to the burn the DRS”.

[Rod_]

Well I reckon that 15m and holding the ball we may have received a lucky call. However if we are going to cherry pick umpire calls there were a few that raised my blood pressure a little during the game. A couple that resulted in Cats goals....

Our turn to be on the good side of the final siren ledger!

End My Opinion

[Markwebbos]

Now this from this Alistair Nicholson article on ABC News Online headlined 'Richmond Go From Hunted To Hunter etc'. I won't put link up as it freezes the thread.

Karma comes for the Cats

It's fair to say if you were a golf professional, you wouldn't want an AFL umpire for a caddy. Judging yardage just isn't their forte. Coaching great David Parkin often says Aussie rules is the world's toughest game to officiate, and I agree the umpires largely do an excellent job in very difficult circumstances.

But the 15-metre kick is the most poorly adjudicated rule in the game, with marks routinely paid when the ball travelled no further than a 20-foot putt.

The usually generous assessment of distance made Saturday night's howler at the SCG all the more conspicuous.

In this instance, the umpires badly underestimated the length of Brad Close's kick across the goal mouth in the dying moments of the clash with Sydney.

The AFL on Sunday confirmed Jeremy Cameron should have been paid a mark in the right forward pocket, giving him the chance to be a hero in just his second game for the Cats. Cameron still needed to bend the ball through from a tight angle but, as a left-footer, there was every chance.

Seconds later, the Cats should also have been awarded a holding-the-ball free kick directly in front when James Rowbottom leapt on the ball, was tackled by Joel Selwood and made no effort to dispose of it. It was blatant."

I have sent a complaint to the ABC.

Did you say it was “inaccurate”?

[aardvark]

The only reason why there is not more support on this forum for the DRS is that the Swans through Cameron and Rowbottom got away with two crucial decisions.

The reason there's no support for the idea on this forum is because it's a rubbish idea.

[stevoswan]

Did you say it was “inaccurate”?

I complained that it was misreporting and biased and that it presents an opinion as fact.

[stevoswan]

The only reason why there is not more support on this forum for the DRS is that the Swans through Cameron and Rowbottom got away with two crucial decisions.

Now you're just doubling down on a silly call that is seemingly based on biased reporting of said incidents. Doubling down on crap is just counter productive. Are you RWO's new 'TheBloods'?

[TheBloods]

Surely im not alone in wondering if Rowbottom is all there ?? Dying seconds jumps on the ball makes zero effort to get rid of it. 1 second away from a HTB. High tackle or not , siren or not it's frickin dumb !

[rb4x]

Rowbottom got away with nothing as it was a high tackle. He should have been given a free if anything. Cameron would have had extreme difficulty converting his non mark. The siren would have gone before he took his kick so any attempt to deviate offline would have been game over. A mark on the boundary line against the point post is not too difficult during normal play but is far more difficult after the siren.

Having some form of DRS for only part of a game is unfair like wise limiting the number of calls is also unfair as frequently seen in cricket where an idiot batsman burns a DRS to the detriment of the team. Having unlimited DRS in a game would mean that it would never finish and the media would not like that. DRS is not the answer. If it was look at the strange goal awarded to West Coast yesterday. Totally unclear if it was a goal or touched and if a goal unclear as to who kicked it. We do not need any more rubbish rules. There are more than enough already.

[SwanSand]

Surely im not alone in wondering if Rowbottom is all there ?? Dying seconds jumps on the ball makes zero effort to get rid of it. 1 second away from a HTB. High tackle or not , siren or not it's frickin dumb !

If DRS gets introduced, we will have to check the result of the match the next day ! The quarters on occasions are very long and imagine what the DRS will do to the match.

You win some and you lose some. It’s never going to be perfect.

Rowbottom on the other hand was fantastic... he is a frickin fabulous player !

[mcs]

We need something to change. I’m sure the professional minds on the rules committee could come up with a coaches call DRS. Maybe it’s limited to one per game.

Too often a bad call in AFL changes the momentum of a game and by default the game.

The only reason why there is not more support on this forum for the DRS is that the Swans through Cameron and Rowbottom got away with two crucial decisions. The Swans got away with another crucial decision with Rampe being Spider-Man. Some of these crucial decisions will go against the Swans.

DRS implementation needs to be ready for 2022 and Razor needs to be running the DRS bunker.

Garbage. People don't like it because its a crap idea for a game like AFL.

Razor Ray runnnig the DRS bunker.... if you want the game to not be about the game, then that's a great call.. Otherwise this platform really needs a facepalm emoji....

[neilfws]

No, we do not need something to change. Umpiring mistakes are and always have been part of the game. They go both ways, always have. Review systems are not perfect either, mistakes are made there too. Sure we get angry when mistakes go against us, but that is not the point. There may be an issue if the overall standard of umpiring were terrible, but it isn't, and if it were, the way to deal with that is to give them better training. Even the best umpires make mistakes. Footy is a human activity. It will never be perfect, and the attempt to make it so detracts from the human drama of it.

Agree with all of that. I'm also an advocate for the unpopular idea of less (none even), not more umpiring technology.

Accept that the game is both played and officiated by humans, who make errors. Accept that it's extremely rare for one decision to swing the result of a game. Put the focus back on winning by playing better than your opponent as opposed to protesting every event in the game.

We forget: umpires don't see what we see on TV, or even from the stands. No high-definition slow-mo replays from every angle, over and over. They see it once, in real time and call it. They get far more right than wrong.

We choose to ignore: that supporters of every team believe they are hard done-by, and that other teams get preferential treatment. OK that last is true for the Bulldogs

I wonder if the relentless focus on decisions during TV coverage and debate in the media the week after is part of the problem.

Hard to think of anything I'd like to see less than DRS in AFL.