2023 List Management

[Roadrunner]

Yes Blood Fever, Sam was our #1 ruck in the granny. However overall in 2016 our #1 ruckman was DirtyKurt, he averaged 25 taps per game over 17 games - not really helping out type figures.
Sam only played 12 games, and had a lower hitout average.
And as for Sinkers played 16 games, so his place on the pecking order was definitely not affecting his place in the 22.

Roadrunner, you made some inaccurate statements about 2016. I simply corrected them, that's it.
I've no idea what you're disagreeing with me about. The facts?
In any case, your most recent post seems to be a refutation of an opinion I never expressed, nor fwiw is it one I hold.

My nickname isn't Half-Back-Flanker&Roll - which means I'm happy to discuss ruckman/ruckwork all day long.

Thanks for the corrections R&R-my memory tends to be a bit hazy!????
My main point is that I feel KB and his team have neglected talls in favour of mids. Of course we need elite mids but the balance has been a bit lopsided and now we are finding ourselves very “short” if you pardon the pun.

Gould and Francis must play for a while to see if they can fill a role.
We have Sheldrick and then Konstanty later on to come in- maybe Big Mac is the only tall we can bring in at some stage this year. I’m not happy with that- we are currently sitting 10th and the list is looking like it is missing depth and this needs to be addressed. We have many young and talented players but KPP’s are missing given the situation with Franklin, Sammy and now Amartey.

[The Big Cat]

For years many people on this forum have been calling for a complete clean out of dead wood AKA depth players. That happened over the last couple of years and now the whinge is about lack of depth. Presumably they would be happy to have Squzzie, Crayfish, Sinkers, Ronke, Bell, O’Reidon and these blokes back instead of the young blokes we drafted.

[Roadrunner]

For years many people on this forum have been calling for a complete clean out of dead wood AKA depth players. That happened over the last couple of years and now the whinge is about lack of depth. Presumably they would be happy to have Squzzie, Crayfish, Sinkers, Ronke, Bell, O’Reidon and these blokes back instead of the young blokes we drafted.

I’m talking about drafting some talls Big Cat- not complaining about clearing out the above!

BTW guys, what happened to our friend The Bloods- has he given our Forum away? I miss the banter, especially now that our team is not travelling too well. Can just see him venting on you know who!????

[Maltopia]

I’m talking about drafting some talls Big Cat- not complaining about clearing out the above!

BTW guys, what happened to our friend The Bloods- has he given our Forum away? I miss the banter, especially now that our team is not travelling too well. Can just see him venting on you know who!????

For me, it is:

a) drafting talls
b) giving them senior games earlier (by rotating more established talls) to develop their ability to step in when needed, and to also reduce their desire to go to other clubs to get more opportunities

If you always pick your best 22 then it is too late when one of them goes out/retires and the next talk/ruck has only VFL experience. It is about succession planning and team development.

How do we not know whether Gould is going to make it or not after all this time? Surely he could have been given 2-3 games last year vs lower sides (though we barely beat North Melbourne early in the season) to test his mettle.

Similarly if we had played Cameron and Nank more times and given Kurt and Naismith a few more rests, one of them might still be with us.

No player wants to be rested, but you got to give the developing players some senior games if they are putting in the work and close to the mark.

[Blood Fever]

For me, it is:

a) drafting talls
b) giving them senior games earlier (by rotating more established talls) to develop their ability to step in when needed, and to also reduce their desire to go to other clubs to get more opportunities

If you always pick your best 22 then it is too late when one of them goes out/retires and the next talk/ruck has only VFL experience. It is about succession planning and team development.

How do we not know whether Gould is going to make it or not after all this time? Surely he could have been given 2-3 games last year vs lower sides (though we barely beat North Melbourne early in the season) to test his mettle.

Similarly if we had played Cameron and Nank more times and given Kurt and Naismith a few more rests, one of them might still be with us.

No player wants to be rested, but you got to give the developing players some senior games if they are putting in the work and close to the mark.

Kurt and Naismith had enough rests through injury. We made the GF in 2016 by putting our best team on the park each week.

[Ludwig]

For years many people on this forum have been calling for a complete clean out of dead wood AKA depth players. That happened over the last couple of years and now the whinge is about lack of depth. Presumably they would be happy to have Squzzie, Crayfish, Sinkers, Ronke, Bell, O’Reidon and these blokes back instead of the young blokes we drafted.

I, for one, have never complained about cutting the dead wood. None of those mentioned would improve our situation. Maybe some could fill in so the team becomes slightly more competitive in a poor season, but that's about it.

If you always pick your best 22 then it is too late when one of them goes out/retires and the next talk/ruck has only VFL experience. It is about succession planning and team development.

How do we not know whether Gould is going to make it or not after all this time? Surely he could have been given 2-3 games last year vs lower sides (though we barely beat North Melbourne early in the season) to test his mettle.

I've always been in favour of this development strategy. The way we drafted the past couple of years, you would think our list managers were satisfied with the depth of KPPs. There's no point in holding back now. We should play Gould and Francis, both in defence if needed, and see how it goes. We shouldn't expect too much, but at worst, we will know where we stand as far as our trade and draft strategy goes after the season.

[Maltopia]

Kurt and Naismith had enough rests through injury. We made the GF in 2016 by putting our best team on the park each week.

Would we have played in the GF still if in a couple of games we had played Cameron a couple of times as a first or second ruck (or Ruck-Forward)?

We don’t know the answer to that, but you rarely lose a game because of your bottom six players/subs who have the lowest game time in a match and and are there to play a role, not dominate and win a game off their own efforts.

It is a balance of trying to win each game in the season to secure the four points and ladder position, as well as making sure you are in a good position to do the same the next year, and the year after that etc.

Knowing Franklin was towards the end of his career (and how he missed a whole season), Reid’s injury history (and age), plus Melican’s injury history, plus Rampe’s age, it is just very surprising we didn’t draft more talls in the last few years when we had the ability to do so either with our pick, or to trade up to grab someone.

Did we try to move up our Stephen’s pick to number three? That would have got us Luke Jackson and we still might have got Tom McCartin with a lower 2nd round pick.

We then wouldn’t have traded back four spots to get Ladhams and and we could have snapped up Leek Aleer instead of Sheldrick.

Of course it is easy with hindsight, but the talls predicament was also clearly visible to some of us over the last couple of years and avoidable or mitigated with drafting more talls and or playing Gould (and before him Cameron and Nank) more regularly.

[i'm-uninformed2]

So, for the Himmelberg curious on here, and I consider myself one . . . I got talking to a dude the other day who turned out to be direct family of Himmelberg’s long term partner. Here’s what they know:

* As well as GWS wanting to keep him, Richmond and Sydney are definitely into Harry (there may be other clubs; they’re just the ones they were aware of)
* Harry’s best friend at GWS was Taranto, so he’s been on the case
* But Harry is from Wagga, she’s from Canberra and they’re both very happy and have a clear preference for staying in Sydney - having recently moved to Bronte
* He knows his next deal is four or five years and the one that makes his career, so it’ll need to be a good one.

Does that tell us much? No. And they had no feel for whether GWS have the $$ to keep him. But I did like hearing we are all over it and their start point is a preference for staying in Sydney. Anyway, take it for what it’s worth given it is two steps removed from where the action is, but Kinnear, get to bloody work.

[chalbilto]

Why would he go to Richmond for premiership glory as I honestly believe that the dynasty is over as their list of champions are getting long in the tooth, Father Time and injuries are catching up at a furious pace, this is exactly what happened to the Lions and the Hawks.

[707]

Himmelberg as a FA would keep our strong ND hand in tact.

GWS would want a good compo pick so we follow Brisbane's Daniher template, the one that stunk but was quietly signed off by the AFL - two year contract on big $ to trigger a pick after GWS first, which should be juicy. Once Harry is here, we renegotiate a four/five year deal with lower $ in year one and two than we originally signed.

Seems good to me.

[Mark26]

So, for the Himmelberg curious on here, and I consider myself one . . . I got talking to a dude the other day who turned out to be direct family of Himmelberg’s long term partner. Here’s what they know:

* As well as GWS wanting to keep him, Richmond and Sydney are definitely into Harry (there may be other clubs; they’re just the ones they were aware of)
* Harry’s best friend at GWS was Taranto, so he’s been on the case
* But Harry is from Wagga, she’s from Canberra and they’re both very happy and have a clear preference for staying in Sydney - having recently moved to Bronte
* He knows his next deal is four or five years and the one that makes his career, so it’ll need to be a good one.

Does that tell us much? No. And they had no feel for whether GWS have the $$ to keep him. But I did like hearing we are all over it and their start point is a preference for staying in Sydney. Anyway, take it for what it’s worth given it is two steps removed from where the action is, but Kinnear, get to bloody work.

Thanks for the intel. We really do need a player like Harry. Let's hope we can get it done.

[Roadrunner]

Thanks for the intel. We really do need a player like Harry. Let's hope we can get it done.

We need Harry or someone of his quality. Who else is gettable?

[Maltopia]

We need Harry or someone of his quality. Who else is gettable?

Mason Redman but he might want to go back home to South Australia.

Here is a recent article on 2024 free agents

AFL news 2023: Darcy Parish, Mason Redman on restricted free agency list, Brad Scott discusses Josh Mahoney, Adrian Dodoro feud

[Auntie.Gerald]

Tiges
Melbourne
Cats

all brought in significant trades to have the absolute class and depth needed in specific roles to win GFs

we will have to also

[liz]

Depends if we want a defender, a forward, a swing man, or both/all three.

Ben McKay has been rumoured to be available but he’s not yet a free agent. Carlton apparently have their eye on him to fit into their ever elastic salary cap.

Presumably they’ll only move for McKay if they lose De Koning, even though they’ve played him as a ruck and forward, not the defender that McKay is.

Ben McKay doesn’t really interest me. He seems to be injured nearly as much as Reid and Melican. And while there’s been lots of hype around De Koning, he strikes me - at least now - as a mediocre ruck and mediocre forward. I suspect he might prove to be a far more than mediocre defender if a club ever chooses to try him there.

I don’t think Himmelberg will ever be the kind of forward you build a forward line around, but he could be a very handy wingman. And his versatility is appealing. His choice of club might come down to which end of the ground he prefers playing at, and what his suitor clubs (including GWS) are saying to him about where they see him playing.