2024 List Management

[SwanSand]

Pies have 9 playes aged 32yo+ on their list, headed by 37yo Pendlebury. They think their list is good enough for another flag & did well to recruit Houstan with the hand they began with.

Not sure if they have any young talent pushing for selection who are not getting games, compared to us whereby 32yo Parker thought his place looked shaky with the emerging Sheldrick. Cleary & Co Warner, despite playing in GF & kicking 3 goals!

Pies appear to be following the Geelong model and hoping to defy big fall, by using their big draw power to keep topping up list. It didn't work ultimately for Hawthorn under Clarkson.

There would be players who are keen enough to go to Collingwood given they are in Melbourne and they play a lot of big games and probably have a coach that is liked just like Chris Scott. I think they will keep attracting talent from other teams. Not sure if they will be contenders with that kind of talent as you end up paying more to sttract the elite and your bottom players get a bit weaker as you don’t have enough money to get the good bottom players.
I think KB and the recruiting and coaching team are on a trajectory of staying put with their plan. And most of the team is young and we could still get success however, our glaring weakness is still existent. We need a A grade forward, a A grade midfield bull and a A grade key position defender.
if we get that we could use Nick Blakey as the key intercept defender. A lot of us have suggested Mills could be the A grade bull midfielder and yes he and Sheldrick needs to put in the effort that we need to get the ball in the middle of the ground. I would not play Adam’s next year in the AFL. And let Cleary and sheldrick get as much time to do what Adam’s and Parker could do. But I am worried about our defence. Without adding a player we are exposing ourselves a bit too much. We just don’t have the elite defensive talent that’s needed to win the Flag. Not saying that they are bad but we have enough bad patches collectively in defense that we get severely exposed.

[Roadrunner]

There would be players who are keen enough to go to Collingwood given they are in Melbourne and they play a lot of big games and probably have a coach that is liked just like Chris Scott. I think they will keep attracting talent from other teams. Not sure if they will be contenders with that kind of talent as you end up paying more to sttract the elite and your bottom players get a bit weaker as you don’t have enough money to get the good bottom players.
I think KB and the recruiting and coaching team are on a trajectory of staying put with their plan. And most of the team is young and we could still get success however, our glaring weakness is still existent. We need a A grade forward, a A grade midfield bull and a A grade key position defender.
if we get that we could use Nick Blakey as the key intercept defender. A lot of us have suggested Mills could be the A grade bull midfielder and yes he and Sheldrick needs to put in the effort that we need to get the ball in the middle of the ground. I would not play Adam’s next year in the AFL. And let Cleary and sheldrick get as much time to do what Adam’s and Parker could do. But I am worried about our defence. Without adding a player we are exposing ourselves a bit too much. We just don’t have the elite defensive talent that’s needed to win the Flag. Not saying that they are bad but we have enough bad patches collectively in defense that we get severely exposed.

Yep, Cleary and Sheldrick need games- I think that’s a big reason Parks thought he should leave, though I would have preferred for him to stay as a 1 club champion. We defo need an A grade defender and a tall forward who can consistently mark overhead. Fact is, we don’t have ‘‘em so we rely on our mids to hit the scoreboard too much in most games.Logan, Joel and Hayden are good but at this stage not A grade and hopefully Buller can offer some competition next year.

What are we doing with Hamling?

I’m still trying to figure out our capitulation in the GF- can’t seem to get over that insipid display. I want to watch it again to see if I can find some sort of explanation but not sure if I want to endure all the pain! Anyway, I still think we’re at least 2 tall A graders short and even if we pick them up in the draft, it will take a few years for them to develop. Obviously there wasn’t anyone we could have gone for in Trade Week.

[imuninformedtwo]

Longmire did address it at the B&F dinner, explicitly saying he didn't know why they capitulated so easily. There was at least an implicit 'yet' in there. (Maybe I'd find it was explicit if I went back and listened to his speech again.)

No, they don't know why, yet, and I wonder if they ever will.

I have two images seared into my brain of Errol - usually our best runner, who covers an enormous amount of ground both sides of the ball - barely jogging along the wing, waving at a player to cover the opponent who ran past him, ignoring the fact the player was already trying to cover someone else who'd also run past him. There was one in particular where Fox was scrambling to do it all and simply couldn't, understandably.

How you explain the mental fog that causes a player of Errol's calibre and workrate to do that, I'll never know.

[Nugget Returns]

No, they don't know why, yet, and I wonder if they ever will.

I have two images seared into my brain of Errol - usually our best runner, who covers an enormous amount of ground both sides of the ball - barely jogging along the wing, waving at a player to cover the opponent who ran past him, ignoring the fact the player was already trying to cover someone else who'd also run past him. There was one in particular where Fox was scrambling to do it all and simply couldn't, understandably.

How you explain the mental fog that causes a player of Errol's calibre and workrate to do that, I'll never know.

Look, I love Errol and his ability to find the ball, and use it for that matter. But there were too many times this year where Errol was very me, me, me. Abused others when he didn't get the ball, even when the ball use resulted in a goal. Abused the bench when rotations went wrong (when he was half way to the bench) and his defensive work rate certainly dropped off this year. Something certainly wasn't right there. I get that he is demanding high standards, but there are better ways of going about it.

[Syd76]

Forgive me if someone has gone over this earlier in the thread, but given the delistings and trades, am I right in reading that we are taking 4 players from this draft?

Off the main list we have shed: Parker, Konstanty, Reid and Vickery (4)
Off the Rookie we have lost Arnold, Magor McAndrew (3)

Can someone please confirm this?

[dejavoodoo44]

Forgive me if someone has gone over this earlier in the thread, but given the delistings and trades, am I right in reading that we are taking 4 players from this draft?

Off the main list we have shed: Parker, Konstanty, Reid and Vickery (4)
Off the Rookie we have lost Arnold, Magor McAndrew (3)

Can someone please confirm this?

Not quite. Reid was on the increasingly poorly named, rookie list. But that doesn't mean that we can't use all four draft picks, if we really want to. The last time I looked, clubs were allowed to have 36, 37 or 38 players on the primary list and a maximum of 44 including rookies. Last year we had 37 on the primary list, so we could take four from the main draft, even though we only delisted three. Or if the club saw some good reason to keep the list at 37, then a current player could be delisted and then redrafted as a rookie.

[Ludwig]

As Deja says, we have cut 7, but have added Hanily, so down net 6 players, leaving a current list size of 38.

Although we have room for a DFA, I didn't see any player that looked all that enticing. With a lot of young players on the list without senior spots, it's hard to justify another mature player to compete with them. I'd kick the ball down the road this year. I can see a lot more delistings and retirements next year. And there is the ever present threat of losing the Warner brothers, which would have a huge impact on our list quality.

We are unlikely to find out how the Chad contract talks are going, as we tend to be secretive on such matters.

Other than the Chad problem, I think our list is in good shape, but it we need to land a few good 3 good picks this year to list it going. So I figure we get Academy defender Cochran and hopefully nail our 2 picks in the 20s. They don't have to be superstars, just good solid players.

It appears that Francis will get another contract. Although I was initially against this, I can't see the value of adding another draft pick this year, so might as well keep him.

[Roadrunner]

No, they don't know why, yet, and I wonder if they ever will.

I have two images seared into my brain of Errol - usually our best runner, who covers an enormous amount of ground both sides of the ball - barely jogging along the wing, waving at a player to cover the opponent who ran past him, ignoring the fact the player was already trying to cover someone else who'd also run past him. There was one in particular where Fox was scrambling to do it all and simply couldn't, understandably.

How you explain the mental fog that causes a player of Errol's calibre and workrate to do that, I'll never know.

Just re- watched the 1st quarter of the GF-tried to exclude all emotion and looked at how we played. Outmarked 30-15, with 6-1 inside 50: a telling stat for starters. Brisbane were overlapping with ease and made ridiculous space up forward. Down back especially but all over the ground they covered for each other and moved with pace with fierce determination to be first to the ball and players backing up and/or running past. It was already a masterclass and a sign of what was to come in the 2nd quarter.

I didn’t have the stomach to watch further- maybe after I’ve had a few I’ll give it a try!
My gut feel is that we expected to recover composure and form after quarter time, as we have done many time this season- trouble was Brisbane didn’t let us do that and applied even more pressure and basically that then was the ball game. We didn’t man up, apply any pressure or use any game intelligence. Now to look at why this could happen in a GF: I think we played our GF the previous week against Port!
Look, they killed us a few weeks back in Adelaide and the boys knew they had to really lift if they had a chance to beat them, especially after Port’s win to make the prelim.

The result was our team was mentally and physically spent. Of course, they all knew that this was the GF and they had to rise to the occasion but their brains and bodies simply couldn’t do it. And when you’re up against a team in hot form and who played at the G of late, it was simply too much for them.

We simply have to play much better in 1st quarters so we don’t have to play catch up football- not just on the scoreboard but in general play. If we’re mentally and physically fit, we can then go on to win most games as the talent is there. Both the coaches and players need to train with this in mind and it’s not good enough to merely acknowledge it without rectifying the problem.

[KSAS]

Saw this on Ch 7 news tonight that we'll be paying part of Luke's contract next year at North. Related to money owing to him in last 3 years of his contract which was deferred to next yesr and North has requested we pay that difference. No mention of figure, hopefully it's not sizeable .

https://www.reddit.com/r/AFL/comments/1g8if9v/sydney_will_continue_to_pay_part_of_luke_parkers/

[Ruck'n'Roll]

It appears that Francis will get another contract. Although I was initially against this, I can't see the value of adding another draft pick this year, so might as well keep him.

We've needed a tall key defender ever since the super-tall forwards started to emerge - which was a long time ago. The first of these super-talls are now headed toward retirement for goodness sake..
We've also needed an intercept marker down back, we lost AA, then Dawson, then McCartin#1 - I love the Lizard but it's not realy his go. So that's a need too.

Maybe Edwards and Snell can help in these two areas? They need to get opportunities when fit. I am concerned AaronF may impede that, that he is a list clogger? And as for the recruitment and use of Hamling - it's an enigma to me.

[dejavoodoo44]

The latest Cal Twomey draft rankings have come out.

Cal Twomey's Phantom Form Guide: Top draft prospects' October ranking - https://www.afl.com.au/news/1248177

Not a huge amount of change and there's still some players that I quite like in the general vicinity of our picks. Those picks are currently 19 and 22, but are likely to fall back to 22 and 25, with bids on Ashcroft, Lombard and Kako.

He has Shanahan at 20, but other draft experts have him being taken earlier, so I suspect that he might be gone by our picks. Which is a shame, as he impressed me when playing for the Allies, with his attack on the ball. He then kicked 11 goals in 3 games in the VFL. But if he does slip to our pick, then I would like to see us add another promising KPF.

At 21 is Cooper Hynes, a big bodied 190cm midfielder. Apparently he likes to throw his body around and he does have some decent skills. Since I thought we lacked a bit of grunt around the ball in the GF, I'm quietly hoping that we take him. He also has some resemblance to Dustin Martin. Though of course, if there was a strong resemblance, he'd be ranked higher.

Brisbane academy prospect Sam Marshall is at 22. Worth making a bid if he's still there, as he's a classy midfield accumulator. Although Brisbane now have the points to match a bid, while going into little or no deficit, depending on how high Ashcroft goes.

Next is the second Whitlock twin, Matt. He's 199cm, has a big leap and has played at both ends. So that versatility appeals to me, as we probably also need another up and coming key defender.

The other prospect that I like is Jonty Faull at 25. I don't recall seeing him play, but he's a tall forward who's kicked plenty of goals this year. Whereas the rest of the players ranked from 24 to 30, look to be smaller outside running types, and I think we probably already have enough of those.

[SwanSand]

It’s funny how when most of us look at the draft prospects , we tend to like the same kind of players or we tend to search for the similar kind - big bodied midfielders, KPF or KPD. And when the actual draft happens neither of these categories are answered as if we supporters and the club recruiters are on totally different planets. I am sure there is a lot of thought that goes into it by the recruiters but …

[SwanSand]

It’s also insane that a team that gets the premiership gets the first draft pick ( assuming Levi will go 1) and also gets access to another first round draft pick through academy. I think the system is bonkers.

[dejavoodoo44]

It’s funny how when most of us look at the draft prospects , we tend to like the same kind of players or we tend to search for the similar kind - big bodied midfielders, KPF or KPD. And when the actual draft happens neither of these categories are answered as if we supporters and the club recruiters are on totally different planets. I am sure there is a lot of thought that goes into it by the recruiters but …

Yes, I suspect that management looked at the success of Hawthorn, with plenty of skilful outside players, and Richmond, with lots of pacy, high pressure types, and decided that some bias towards fast skilful players was a good idea. Which I tended to think was a good idea. But to me, it's likely that we now need to shift the focus back the other way.

And Brisbane being a chance to claim the number one pick, after just winning the premiership, also leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. Possibly I wouldn't have minded so much, if it was an academy pick who they spent time and money developing, but all they have to do to claim Levi Ashcroft, is to be sentient enough to realise that he's the son of Marcus Ashcroft. Which doesn't seem quite fair. Especially since his brother, Will, just won the Norm Smith.

It's also not too much of a stretch, to make the argument that the F/S rule has been a significant factor in a number of premierships over the last twenty years or so. Collingwood last year, the Geelong sides, Western Bulldogs, perhaps a couple of others.

[sharp9]

So we need Joey Kennedy, Barry Hall and Paul Roos. No problem. Also regarding first round picks, Gary Rohan and Lewis Jetta were pretty handy, Jarrad McVeigh went alright as did Nic Fosdike and Jude Bolton. But seriously, it’s not that hard is it? Every man, woman and their goldfish knew that Caleb Serong was going to be a superstar. I think someone left Dean Towers off the list.