2025 List Management

[neilfws]

Will and Ollie dish the dirt!

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1448129/we-want-you-gone-the-phone-call-with-sydney-swans-coach-dean-cox-that-changed-everything-for-popular-ex-swans-will-hayward-ollie-florent-blues

[Thunder Shaker]

Some profiles on various draft prospects have been posted on the AFL website. Not all positions have been posted yet. Carmichael, Chamberlain, King and Kyle covered from the Sydney Swans Academy.

Medium forwards - Noah Chamberlain, Max King, Harry Kyle.
Smalls - no Sydney Academy players listed.
Midfielders - no Sydney Academy players listed.
Defenders - Lachlan Carmichael.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Will and Ollie dish the dirt!

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1448129/...-florent-blues

If we wanted to ruthlessly trade for upside

I think we did

with that formula applied ……..there is no doubt heart felt pain

[imuninformedtwo]

Alternative conclusion is that Twomey may not have any idea how Sydney rates him (or any of our academy prospects). He does have contacts at the clubs and with managers so I’m not in a position to question mumblings he might have heard. But I suspect he’s guessing (or making stuff up) when it comes to how Sydney might rate those players.

I say this as someone who generally thinks he’s one of the better AFL journos, and not just on draft content but . . .

He’s guessing a bit on how we rate them, because we famously don’t talk, and he’s said so himself. The one club he consistently gets wrong is Sydney. (Though he did get Green right a couple of years back.) We didn’t even rat out Weddle - with Twomey forecasting us to take him - as a mommy’s boy who deserved a public flogging when we had every reason to given the draft rorting @@@@ he pulled in his interviews.

But, it’s probably not hard for him to conclude we wouldn’t match a bid on Carmichael that’s too high given why would we rate him so highly when almost no one else does, though as noted on here, it only takes one. What’s likely is it is a steaming pile of proverbial as a draft, so we’re not going to overpay and either miss another kid this year or carry a deficit next year on someone who is no more than capable.

To offer Twomey his due, I give myself Wednesdays off these days. It’s one of the joys of being self-employed and a nice way to break up my week - spending more time in the ocean, browning my belly or indulging in day drinking. But as a result, I often have the time to consume Gettable, and he’s been plugging Kyle since about June. He was first to capture the rise in interest, and talk up his talents based on the games he actually watches (unlike a lot of other morons in the media).

[KSAS]

If we wanted to ruthlessly trade for upside

I think we did

with that formula applied ……..there is no doubt heart felt pain

Agree with your sentiments AG. I can't recall club being this aggresive with contracted players and sad seeing it undermining remenants of any loyalty in this professional era.

Made it more difficult dealing with players on the other side of the world in the midst of it all. Not all that surprised Cox only managed to have 2 phone calls with Will due to the challenging time differences. I've no doubt Cox and the Club would've wanted more dialogue. There is 2 sides to the story.

In the end, i was relieved the deal got done due to negotiations getting to the point of no return from a players perspective. That's where Carlton had the edge in extracting our 3rd x 1st rounder.

Hope Curnow reads this account to fully appreciate just how much the club were committed in landing him.

[stellation]

One minor thing- both Oli and Will had interest from other clubs, in particular Will, before eventually re-signing with the Swans. Usually that external interest comes with an increased total return on the contract, whether through just more dollars per year or through more guaranteed years.

I wonder what sort of impact to reputation this kind of thing has for a club when having those conversations as far as getting a player to sign a more team friendly contract as opposed to looking elsewhere? I believe a contracted player being traded needs to agree to the trade and terms with the new club (we seem to have restructured Charlie’s contract, for example), but I could perfectly understand players seeing this sort of thing and going into renewal contracts thinking “it’s a business”. I wouldn't be surprised if Will left at least $500k on the table across the total contract to stay with us when he signed on for the 5 year extension.

[BRS328]

very disappointed to see the arrival of ollie and wil at blues headquarters. 2 players we should not have lost. price for curnow too high and it might scuttle our academy drafting this year.

I think you will find that the club has planned this carefully and will take all three players in the upcoming draft even if it means going into points deficit next year. It is the first time that I can recall that we have had 3 quality players come through at the same time

[BRS328]

Will be sad to see both Ollie & Wilbur in navy blue next year. They will always be loved Swans. But it gives our team a much needed new look with the draftees spearheaded by Charlie and opportunities for others to stake claim (Dattoli, Co Warner, Sheldrick, Bowman, Andrews etc...).

With Rampe & Lloyd both being delisted to be rookied, it signals 2026 will their final year and won't be auto selections, but handy deptth players just the same. Particularly Rampe.

Excited what the Academy boys could bring and hope the cards fall our way on the night to draft all 4 of them (King, Kylie, Carmichael & possibly Chamberlain).

A tall versatile forward, a Luke Parker type midfielder and a dashing tall defender is a nice profile spread for the future.

Cox will have the hand to remould the team, which is needed after the 2022 & 2024 GF debacles.

Edit: Coupled with the offfield changes in the coaching ranks, VFL / Academy and new CEO, 2026 will mark a new era. Which i hope will turn out to be a very successful one.

I think that you are on the money with your comments, but I also suspect that Cox and his fellow coaches were also planning to add a bit of “toughness” to the team.

[imuninformedtwo]

One minor thing- both Oli and Will had interest from other clubs, in particular Will, before eventually re-signing with the Swans. Usually that external interest comes with an increased total return on the contract, whether through just more dollars per year or through more guaranteed years.

I wonder what sort of impact to reputation this kind of thing has for a club when having those conversations as far as getting a player to sign a more team friendly contract as opposed to looking elsewhere? I believe a contracted player being traded needs to agree to the trade and terms with the new club (we seem to have restructured Charlie’s contract, for example), but I could perfectly understand players seeing this sort of thing and going into renewal contracts thinking “it’s a business”. I wouldn't be surprised if Will left at least $500k on the table across the total contract to stay with us when he signed on for the 5 year extension.

Everything you say is true, but they also both got an extra year on their contract with Carlton at their current rates (Wilbur somewhere $7-750k and Ollie around $650k), so in effect, locked it back in. I think players have simply viewed their contracts as salary guarantees more than compacts with their clubs for a while now, given the fluidity and ease of movement available to them.

Whereas my understanding with Charlie is he got an extra year, but lowered the rate across the five. I think he’s now at about $900k a year, which is the same as Oscar Allen somehow got from Brisbane. Which on pure talent and leaving aside the draft collateral needed to get him, is a pretty good salary deal for us.

Now, to make it work.

[stellation]

Everything you say is true, but they also both got an extra year on their contract with Carlton at their current rates (Wilbur somewhere $7-750k and Ollie around $650k), so in effect, locked it back in. I think players have simply viewed their contracts as salary guarantees more than compacts with their clubs for a while now, given the fluidity and ease of movement available to them.

Whereas my understanding with Charlie is he got an extra year, but lowered the rate across the five. I think he’s now at about $900k a year, which is the same as Oscar Allen somehow got from Brisbane. Which on pure talent and leaving aside the draft collateral needed to get him, is a pretty good salary deal for us.

Now, to make it work.

I daresay you’re right, dear boy. I didn’t realise that they’d picked up an extra year on their current dollars ea ch, I’m happy for them that it worked out that way..

Excited to see how we look with a (hopefully) dominant forward.

[Dow]

I daresay you’re right, dear boy. I didn’t realise that they’d picked up an extra year on their current dollars ea ch, I’m happy for them that it worked out that way..

Excited to see how we look with a (hopefully) dominant forward.

Got to say I didn't know that either, surely they must be wrapped they literally have been set up for the next stage of their life now, without having to kick a footy

[UUaswan]

Another point of note about the apparent lack of comms between Ex players and club. It was reported very early that Ollie was told to look and Will very early on said he was open to it if he wasn't wanted, i.e. asked.

Apart from being in Brazil on a different time zone, they all shared the same Agent, I doubt very much that anyone was unaware of what was happening despite not being on the call to Cox.

[stevoswan]

Will and Ollie dish the dirt!

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1448129/...-florent-blues

I'm sure it wasn't as brutal as Ollie and Will initially make it sound and I understand that the conversations that lead to their unexpected departure may have hurt a bit, maybe a lot:

"Oh yeah, it was tough. It was definitely tough," Florent tells AFL.com.au.

"They pretty much just said we want you out. We want you gone."

Really? Likely read, 'we want you help us facilitate an eventual trade deal to bring a star to our club'.

Hayward was next. Cox was on the line. And the coach was just as emphatic.

"Over the whole period, I had two phone calls with 'Coxy'," Hayward tells AFL.com.au.

"That's pretty much it. Those phone calls made it pretty easy to want to join Carlton."

In reality, 'your best mate has been traded to the club you spoke to last year, would you like to get there next season and join him so we can bring a star to our club?'.

Later in that article they do walk back that negativity a bit, pledging their admiration and appreciation of the Swans but ultimately acknowledging that footy is a business. That part is probably closer to the truth.....and I'll certainly miss them both.
My main hope, besides Curnow helping us win a flag, is that it doesn't cause ripples among the playing group....but I'm sure they are mature and intelligent enough to assess things a little less emotionally and get on with the job of winning.

Yes, ultimately footy is a business and sometimes there are casualties. It's sad that it was Ollie and Will but it had to be someone. That's sometimes the price for a chance at success.

Of course, time will tell if the club made the right move.

[lwjoyner]

Cox needs to win a premiership with HIS team it will be itersting how long rosie plays in th seniors. He maybe next years "we dont wont u".
He should not have been made coach without the appropriate look at other candidates. Not sure if he is a Coaches "a" hole.

[BFG]

Cox needs to win a premiership with HIS team it will be itersting how long rosie plays in th seniors. He maybe next years "we dont wont u".
He should not have been made coach without the appropriate look at other candidates. Not sure if he is a Coaches "a" hole.

There's 18 teams in the AFL and only one premiership each season, simple maths says they are incredibly difficult to win.

PLUS success is tilted in favour of a handful of clubs that enjoy unfair advantages over others, we know who they are and they're all in Victoria! This encompasses a whole range of things that are weighted against us - ability to attract players, coaches, draftees being willing to move away from home, travel load, not enjoying 18 comfortable "at home" games at the MCG, having to travel to "@@@@" venues, sponsorship opportunities, battling against go home factor, being based in the most expensive city in the country but having the same Salary Cap as everyone else, discounted real estate and farms etc etc. No surprise which clubs are pushing for a Mid Season Trade Period, the big Vic clubs who will be able to readily attract players from neighbouring clubs/suburbs but not so us who would be asking recruits mid year to move states and lifestyles.

What we have achieved in the past 20 years is impressive, so hats off to the club for making the decisions they have in the past. The club had seen Cox up very close for a number of years, he was considered widely in the AFL as the outstanding senior coach in waiting, I don't think it was necessary to go through a Powerpoint from a number of other assistant coaches before deciding Cox is the man.

Let's give the current regime some time to succeed before bagging them for decisions made recently.