List changes and trade bait

[Bloody Hell]

It is also a system that discourages clubs bidding picks in the later rounds of the draft. Clubs are going to bid high picks on players like Heeney because they are really just keeping the entitled club honest.

To a point.

Someone gets held holding the bag once and it will stop.

[Bloody Hell]

*Denotes non-comment provision regarding Tom Derickx.

Meow

[Matt80]

That's a very good point Liz. And I would extend that even more so to the 2nd round, as that is where most of the activity takes place to land those second tier players.

On another matter, I was thinking about how the continuation of the careers of both Shaw and Goodes would affect our National Draft and in particular rookie elevations. I was always under the belief that we could only retain one rookie for a 3rd year. I sort of remember this coming up in discussions, and cannot remember any time having more than one 3rd year rookie on the list. But looking at the AFL rules:



I cannot find a provision addressing this matter. Interestingly the word players (plural) is specified in the provision concerning this matter.

I would imagine that in addition to Xavier, we would upgrade Lloyd. I would think we would want to keep Biggs, which would require an upgrade, as he will be heading into his 4th year. This would leave both Naismith and Robinson as potential 3rd year rookies.

Depending on how things go with the Membrey and Mal situations, there could be a squeeze on National draft spots given we are sort of committed to taking 3 academy players.

We do have some room to expand the primary list beyond the usual 38, but I would imagine we would like to keep it at that level due to the advantages of rookie listed players, vis a vis the salary cap. I would think that it is safe to delist AJ and rookie him if we need to meet the technicalities of the list rules. I believe there is an unwritten law that clubs don't draft players under such circumstances, so there is no chance that we would lose him. Harrison Marsh is another one that might yet get delisted. I doubt anyone would pick him up in the ND, and we could probably rookie him as well if we really wanted to retain him.

There are still too many variables to work out how we stand with the number of places available.

I don't believe that we will have any list cloggers left by the end of the trade period. Every one will be a genuine AFL quality player* although obviously some will still be in development stages of their careers.


*Denotes non-comment provision regarding Tom Derickx.

There will be enough spots:

ROK, LRT, Walsh, Marsh and Dick have already departed. = 5
Membrey and Malceski are likely to depart = 2
Shaw is still a chance to retire or not be resigned = 1
Marsh could still be delisted = 1

You will have somewhere between 7 - 9 departures.

There are three nominated selections in the draft = 3
Rookie upgrades will be X Richards and Lloyd = 2
Probably Biggs = 1
Maybe Naismith = 1

That is a total of 7 players.

- There will be options. The Swans may get some second rounds from Malceski and Membrey which they could use to draft new players. They will have to decide whether Marsh or an old Shaw is better than 2nd round picks. There is also the possibility of a cheap trade into the club or a delisted free agent.

There has been no players mentioned as incoming Swans players. Padfull would like to come to the club, but the Swans have said nothing about that.

We may be in a very tight salary cap position that we use only draft picks and rookie upgrades this year.

I would not delist Alex Johnson under any circumstances, not even to rookie list him. He is a young premiership player and we can all find it in our hearts to give him an opportunity as the 38th listed player.

[mcs]

There will be enough spots:

ROK, LRT, Walsh, Marsh and Dick have already departed. = 5
Membrey and Malceski are likely to depart = 2
Shaw is still a chance to retire or not be resigned = 1
Marsh could still be delisted = 1

You will have somewhere between 7 - 9 departures.

There are three nominated selections in the draft = 3
Rookie upgrades will be X Richards and Lloyd = 2
Probably Biggs = 1
Maybe Naismith = 1

That is a total of 7 players.

- There will be options. The Swans may get some second rounds from Malceski and Membrey which they could use to draft new players. They will have to decide whether Marsh or an old Shaw is better than 2nd round picks. There is also the possibility of a cheap trade into the club or a delisted free agent.

There has been no players mentioned as incoming Swans players. Padfull would like to come to the club, but the Swans have said nothing about that.

We may be in a very tight salary cap position that we use only draft picks and rookie upgrades this year.

I would not delist Alex Johnson under any circumstances, not even to rookie list him. He is a young premiership player and we can all find it in our hearts to give him an opportunity as the 38th listed player.

Shaw is playing on, confirmed last night.

[Scottee]

My two bobs worth on Hiscox & Davis. IMHO they are both speculative project players. Despite Hiscox' incredible endurance he is built like a middle distance runner and will need to beef up his upper body to make it in the big time. There are no guarantees that this will happen.

Davis has the right build and is potentially a versatile player but he has not dominated at the lower levels so don't expect him to automatically make it. I only rate them as a chance take it and they would be extremely lucky to make it onto the senior list ahead of players like the ones we are delisting.I'm not saying that they are not worth getting, just don't have any wild expectations.

I would hate to think that KB has his eyes on another hard nut like AJ out there and he can't get his hands on him because of project players. We still need to go after the best available with a high chance of playing seniors if we can and we should not be paying overs if another club wants to give them a chance.

[ernie koala]

Gee from what I've seen of Reserve matches, Davis is a real stretch as a 3rd rounder.

I'm surprised they nominated him, he looks more like rookie draft standard at this stage.

Same could be said of Hiscox but he does have the raw ingredients to make it.

Perhaps this has more to do with the Swans showing the AFL that we are sincere in developing talent from our academy, over drafting a better credentialed interstate player.

This would help quell the attempts by McGuire and co to water down the academies, and the drafting concessions attached to them

[Flying South]

Naismith should be upgraded to the senior list. We should be aiming to get 6+ hand picked games into him in 2015 and stepping it up to 12+ in 2016 before Pyke goes.

I have also watched our main competitors strengthen their forward strike power with Frawley, Ryder and Clarke. And what have we done so far, nominated Davis. Come on guys, lets get serious. Reid might be our answer. Or he may not? Laidler is probably too small at 190. And X and Aliir have played one game between them. Just too many question marks for me. We need to trade in a proven KPD (e.g. Carlisle) or draft in a ready to go one (E.g. Durdin or Lever). We should try to package Membrey up with someone like Reid or Bird to Melbourne, Bulldogs or Saints and try to squeeze their 1st round pick. We could then use it or forward it on for a trade. We are in a new era now. The era of free agency and broken contracts. Where only the strongest survive.

[Jewels]

*Denotes non-comment provision regarding Tom Derickx.

You crack me up

Naismith should be upgraded to the senior list. We should be aiming to get 6+ hand picked games into him in 2015 and stepping it up to 12+ in 2016 before Pyke goes.

I have also watched our main competitors strengthen their forward strike power with Frawley, Ryder and Clarke. And what have we done so far, nominated Davis. Come on guys, lets get serious. Reid might be our answer. Or he may not? Laidler is probably too small at 190. And X and Aliir have played one game between them. Just too many question marks for me. We need to trade in a proven KPD (e.g. Carlisle) or draft in a ready to go one (E.g. Durdin or Lever). We should try to package Membrey up with someone like Reid or Bird to Melbourne, Bulldogs or Saints and try to squeeze their 1st round pick. We could then use it or forward it on for a trade. We are in a new era now. The era of free agency and broken contracts. Where only the strongest survive.

As expert as your thoughts may be, I reckon Beatson and co have enough runs on the board to make this call.

[Matt80]

Shaw is playing on, confirmed last night.

I have my doubts about this decision, but respect the loyalty that the Swans are displaying for their premiership players.

Zak Jones will be ready to go after another pre-season and looks the type to shut down Bruest. I love his tackling and thirst for a contest.

Hopefully Shaw does not have an ROK year.

[mcs]

I have my doubts about this decision, but respect the loyalty that the Swans are displaying for their premiership players.

Zak Jones will be ready to go after another pre-season and looks the type to shut down Bruest. I love his tackling and thirst for a contest.

Hopefully Shaw does not have an ROK year.

I too doubt the decision - I thought he would definitely go this season. Lets hope he works hard on his disposal skills over the summer, his kicking on GF day was terrible.

Would not surprise me for someone to take his spot though, maybe Jones, maybe someone else and have Shaw play out in the ressies. Surely he knows this risk though and took it into account when deciding to go around again.

I like Jones - has a bit of mongrel which is what we were sorely lacking on GF day.

[Bloodthirsty]

There's no doubt that the embarrassing GF 'performance' has affected the decisions of Goodes and Shaw to play on. Understandably, you don't want that being your last game. Having said that, ROK v2.0 could be on the cards (although lucky for Shaw the Swans don't have a lot of running backs with experience).

[Ludwig]

The events of the past week have the feel of a resignation by our club that we are well and truly in a period of de facto free agency.

• There seemed to be little attempt to retain Membrey. You want to look elsewhere for better opportunities? Fine. Let me show you the door.
• No doubt both Goodes and Shaw have earned a certain right to play on another year or more if they so choose, but you would think a number of younger players would wonder when they will get their opportunity for senior football. I am thinking particularly Biggs and Jones in regards to Shaw. (I had a thought that in the case of Shaw playing on may have something to do with trying to retain Malceski, as I believe they are best mates and this may be a way to get in Mal's ear and convince him to stay).
• Nominating both Davis and Hiscox seems to suggest that we are not all that interested in the national draft as a source of players from around the country, but would rather take our home grown talent, cut out the go home factor, and build a team with academy players and free agents. I know it's draft tampering, but we could have easily taken Hiscox in the rookie draft if he didn't participate in the combine (sore knee excuse). In fairness to Jack, maybe he wanted to get on primary list, even if it wasn't with the Swans, and may have done enough to do so with his combine performance. But recruiters would have or should have known he had those athletic abilities. I think he posted a 3km run in just over 9 minutes previously.
• So many players are finding ways to change clubs, whether in contract or not. If you have a need at a club, you can entice a targeted player to leave his club for yours if you have a good enough incentive. So maybe any worries about lack of depth or ready replacements in the key defender department is irrelevant. If we find ourselves lacking at the end of next year, for instance, we just snare a replacement from another club. This is already happening with ruckmen.
• The draft seems more of an encouragement for the fans of lesser clubs to give them hope for the future, while in reality there is every chance they will lose many of their best performing draft picks to top clubs in future years when they reach their prime. It's hard to work your way off the bottom.
• We are fortunate to find ourselves as a destination club at this point in time. We are likely to have a long period challenging for premierships. A bit of schadenfreude regarding Collingwood; they appear to be in sharp decline and may be looking a long period closer to the bottom than the top. It may even spell the end for their fearless leader.

The way I am seeing the next 2 drafts is that we are getting Heeney this year, Mills and Dunkley next year, and rest will take care of itself.

Things are quiet around the club this trade period, so maybe there will be an unexpected surprise in store. We have a record in this regard.

[DA_Swan]

Gee from what I've seen of Reserve matches, Davis is a real stretch as a 3rd rounder.

I'm surprised they nominated him, he looks more like rookie draft standard at this stage.

Same could be said of Hiscox but he does have the raw ingredients to make it.

Perhaps this has more to do with the Swans showing the AFL that we are sincere in developing talent from our academy, over drafting a better credentialed interstate player.

This would help quell the attempts by McGuire and co to water down the academies, and the drafting concessions attached to them

Agree with this - we have to back the academy players moving forward or we leave ourselves wide open to criticism for ignoring players from our own backyard

[mcs]

The events of the past week have the feel of a resignation by our club that we are well and truly in a period of de facto free agency.

• There seemed to be little attempt to retain Membrey. You want to look elsewhere for better opportunities? Fine. Let me show you the door.
• No doubt both Goodes and Shaw have earned a certain right to play on another year or more if they so choose, but you would think a number of younger players would wonder when they will get their opportunity for senior football. I am thinking particularly Biggs and Jones in regards to Shaw. (I had a thought that in the case of Shaw playing on may have something to do with trying to retain Malceski, as I believe they are best mates and this may be a way to get in Mal's ear and convince him to stay).
• Nominating both Davis and Hiscox seems to suggest that we are not all that interested in the national draft as a source of players from around the country, but would rather take our home grown talent, cut out the go home factor, and build a team with academy players and free agents. I know it's draft tampering, but we could have easily taken Hiscox in the rookie draft if he didn't participate in the combine (sore knee excuse). In fairness to Jack, maybe he wanted to get on primary list, even if it wasn't with the Swans, and may have done enough to do so with his combine performance. But recruiters would have or should have known he had those athletic abilities. I think he posted a 3km run in just over 9 minutes previously.
• So many players are finding ways to change clubs, whether in contract or not. If you have a need at a club, you can entice a targeted player to leave his club for yours if you have a good enough incentive. So maybe any worries about lack of depth or ready replacements in the key defender department is irrelevant. If we find ourselves lacking at the end of next year, for instance, we just snare a replacement from another club. This is already happening with ruckmen.
• The draft seems more of an encouragement for the fans of lesser clubs to give them hope for the future, while in reality there is every chance they will lose many of their best performing draft picks to top clubs in future years when they reach their prime. It's hard to work your way off the bottom.
• We are fortunate to find ourselves as a destination club at this point in time. We are likely to have a long period challenging for premierships. A bit of schadenfreude regarding Collingwood; they appear to be in sharp decline and may be looking a long period closer to the bottom than the top. It may even spell the end for their fearless leader.

The way I am seeing the next 2 drafts is that we are getting Heeney this year, Mills and Dunkley next year, and rest will take care of itself.

Things are quiet around the club this trade period, so maybe there will be an unexpected surprise in store. We have a record in this regard.

Jones's time will come - the club clearly rate him highly and he was only drafted last year. Biggs is the one that's hard to judge. He's looked more than capable every time he gets a chance in the top 22, but he must be thinking that his time for a proper run in the team will never come.

[707]

I have my doubts about this decision, but respect the loyalty that the Swans are displaying for their premiership players.

Zak Jones will be ready to go after another pre-season and looks the type to shut down Bruest. I love his tackling and thirst for a contest.

Hopefully Shaw does not have an ROK year.

Maybe he's been told tht there are no guarantees about a senior berth and that like ROK may need to play NEAFL in a mentoring role to allow a Zak Jones type senior development time.

I'm comfortable with the decision, gives quality depth if nothing else.