Is it already Killing Season 2016 (List Management) after 2 rounds

[Nico]

Another see ya later Mitch post. Very highly researched though.

[Triple B]

After watching a lot of footy this year and we can see the game evolving I think we can't play 4 slow mid players to win the flag or maybe this year but not next year.

Sybil80 is back??

[RogueSwan]

What don't get is how Hanners, Parker and Mitchell are classified as slow. The don't seem to plod around the ground to me. Sure they don't skip across the grass like Jets does but they aren't slow.

[Untamed Snark]

Sybil80 is back??

Well not as WA

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Hi all

Once again, I thought we were better then most, but posters like playing the man not the ball.

Ball movement, in times of speed and efficiency are created 2 different ways.

Ball speed and foot speed.

If the ball is moved quickly and continually it makes us play like a fast team, as per David King and champion data.

Foot speed shows that once on the spread our mids are exposed and our defence keeps us in the game. I can't see any of the 4 running down any player, except Hannebery with his running power late in the game.

I don't think that me previous post was a Titch bashing or that I hate Tom or that Joey is too old.

I though my post was about thinking about the speed of the game.

If Nico, Triple B, Rogue Swan and Untamed Swan believe that a ball winner is more important than foot speed, maybe you are right in finals, but maybe ALL premierships are won on the MCG, and that foot speed is becoming more and more important with the changes of rules on marks, frees, man on the mark, rotations etc

[caj23]

Hawks last 3 premiership teams didn't have anymore foot speed than our midfield, with Issac Smith and Brad Hill the exceptions. Those guys however are outside receivers who play on the wings.

Obviously it would be nice if a couple of our outside players (i.e. Cunningham, Lloyd, Rohan) could lift their game to match Smith/Hill as they aren't anywhere near that level

[WolfGang]

Some players seem to have "time" when they get the ball - these players are very important.

They may not be the fasted foot speed players in the side, but what they do with the ball - in releasing other players - I feel is more important.

[WauchopeAnalyst]

Very true wolf, Mitchell, Pendlebury have genius talent but ours was Mcveigh and I am still not convinced about his play since 2014 GF.

[dejavoodoo44]

Very true wolf, Mitchell, Pendlebury have genius talent but ours was Mcveigh and I am still not convinced about his play since 2014 GF.

On the little bit that I've seen of Mills, I'm pretty sure that he has that elite sporting mind that sees things just that millisecond quicker than mere mortals. I think that he is going to a very classy ball user in the not too distant future.

[Levii3]

Hawks last 3 premiership teams didn't have anymore foot speed than our midfield, with Issac Smith and Brad Hill the exceptions. Those guys however are outside receivers who play on the wings.

Hawks are a slow side which was shown on the weekend but they are a elite kicking team compared to us and other teams

[RogueSwan]

What is a slow side?
Is it one with a certain percentage of players considered to be not as fleet footed as the average?
Which team (or teams) is considered normal ie: not fast or slow?
Is it related to the age of the team? Are GSW, Gold Coast and the Dogs regarded as fast teams because of their average age? Hawthorn are slow because they are older?
BTW, older teams are the ones that win premierships (the Baby Bombers being one exception), which puts North in a strong position to win this year.
Has someone got a record of everyone's 20m, 100m and 400m times?

I think it is an illusion. The media perpetuates the fast/slow thing too. Just like the Swans are still a dour team that wants stoppages and contested ball all game when we are really a dynamic team with a lot of exciting footballers.
The Tigers, in the second half of last year, were a very exciting, fast team. This year they have pretty much the same make up but are now considered a slow team. It is all in the way they play, not the athleticism of the team.

I hope I haven't waffled too much, it is hard to write this properly when I supposed to be paying attention to the meeting I am sitting in.
laptop-at-meeting_19-107978.jpg

[WauchopeAnalyst]

I probably disagree about the illusion. Ball movement can make you like good and fast, like us, and all things are good. If you are blocked on your ball movement then to go forward you need foot speed to "break the lines" and break down the defence. If you little to no foot speed you are in big problems. The Giants showed 3 great things, for that game, not all, 1) win the ball and deny the Hawks the ball and then 2 and 3, use ball and foot speed to hurt them. Their systems started to break down on their set ups and spread because they were chasing most of the time.

Now in particular with Richmond. Now that their ball movement has been blocked, as all clubs do their homework, they are exposed as being very slow in foot speed in BOTH directions.

On the weekend, Zorko, Hanley and their crew killed us on the outside, with foot speed, and we were lucky that Buddy, Parker and George kicked 11 between them and our ball movement.

I would use the opposite with Adelaide. For several years we have owned Adelaide and we were making them look pedestrian but now after Walsh and now Pyke they have both ball and foot speed and that has made them very much a contender.

Beveridge had the same players at McCartney but Beveridge changed their mindset and systems and now they use both foot and ball speed in their game and without their injuries that could have been anything.

Richardson and the Saints are building a team on both foot and ball speed with a few new key position players in the coming years they will come into their own.

The AFL has changed the game, regarding keeping the ball in, man on the mark and surrounding areas, far more less ball up/ins and foot speed is becoming more important in the game.

[RogueSwan]

There Lions had an extra man just outside the pack so of course they could move out quicker if we allowed them.
Adelaide have lost one of the quickest midfielders Danger and are now seen as quick. They are playing differently under a new coach and their second tier forwards have progressed.
The Saints pull their forwards up the ground to leave space in front of the goals so they look quick because they have to run hard into that open space. Also, they bring a lot of pressure creating turnovers which can make a team look quick because they essentially have a fast break.
Every year, for as far back as I can remember "we need more speed" has been the call but the Swans continue to recruit footballers over athletes, with speed not appearing to be their first consideration even though it "is becoming more important in the game."
I am not convinced it is a vital ingredient for a team, more a handy asset.

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[Mug Punter]

I see from the OS that both Mills and Heeney are signed up on initial three year deals so that takes away any urgency re young Isaac.

Looking ahead at our list changes for this year, I'd say we have the following outs - Tom Dx, AJ, Xav and probably Ted. That would see us drafting three players and upgrading Papley. If we want to upgrade Nic too then we'd need to either increase the senior list or release an additional player. I see Harry Marsh is listed as a senior player, is that correct? If so, then it would be a shootout between him and Nic I suspect. Colin O'Riordan will also be pushing for an upgrade too I suspect but I suspect we may well keep him on the rookie list for an additional season and not rush his development as there's no need to rush that kid, he is only 21.

But then again I also think we'll be looking at bringing in an established KPD as well as using our first round draft pick to select the best available KPD. Unless we really believe Reid can handle that slot long term, which I don't btw. Which begs the question, how do we fit this in to our list management.

It's an early call but I'll make it now and it's that we'll be trading an established player at season end as part of a KPD deal that may also involve a draft pick upgrade for either club. It will probably be the only trade business we do as our list is so well balanced.

For mine there's probably only three players we'd consider letting go that have any currency and they are Rohan, Reid and Mitchell.

IMO it will only be Mitchell if he wants to leave and I don't think Gary would be worth much at the trade table. But Reid would be and I think we could get a very good KPD in and because he is on top coin (about $500K a year apparently) we'd have no salary cap issues. I like Reid but I don't think he is earning his current salary (even when not injured) and he could well benefit from a change in scenery too.

[Luke Shannon]

I see from the OS that both Mills and Heeney are signed up on initial three year deals so that takes away any urgency re young Isaac.

Looking ahead at our list changes for this year, I'd say we have the following outs - Tom Dx, AJ, Xav and probably Ted. That would see us drafting three players and upgrading Papley. If we want to upgrade Nic too then we'd need to either increase the senior list or release an additional player. I see Harry Marsh is listed as a senior player, is that correct? If so, then it would be a shootout between him and Nic I suspect. Colin O'Riordan will also be pushing for an upgrade too I suspect but I suspect we may well keep him on the rookie list for an additional season and not rush his development as there's no need to rush that kid, he is only 21.

But then again I also think we'll be looking at bringing in an established KPD as well as using our first round draft pick to select the best available KPD. Unless we really believe Reid can handle that slot long term, which I don't btw. Which begs the question, how do we fit this in to our list management.

It's an early call but I'll make it now and it's that we'll be trading an established player at season end as part of a KPD deal that may also involve a draft pick upgrade for either club. It will probably be the only trade business we do as our list is so well balanced.

For mine there's probably only three players we'd consider letting go that have any currency and they are Rohan, Reid and Mitchell.

IMO it will only be Mitchell if he wants to leave and I don't think Gary would be worth much at the trade table. But Reid would be and I think we could get a very good KPD in and because he is on top coin (about $500K a year apparently) we'd have no salary cap issues. I like Reid but I don't think he is earning his current salary (even when not injured) and he could well benefit from a change in scenery too.

I thought that clubs could take a minimum two players in the draft if you have a rookie upgrade. It's three in the draft if you don't upgrade a rookie? Is that correct?