2018 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[liz]

I am fully aware that other sites have reported news about those players not mentioned on the Swans' own site. My comments on the lack of news from the Swans' own site (echoed by others on here) are intended as a dig at the club, in the vain hope that someone might be reading and decide to do something about their very mediocre website (in many ways).

In terms of rookie rules, it's not in question that clubs are allowed to retain a rookie for a third year. However, it used to be a rule that you could only retain one third year rookie. It's specifically that which I don't know if it has changed or not. If you're only allowed to retain one third year rookie, that could explain why Fox is reportedly to be promoted since the club also seems intent on retaining Pink. It has been suggested, by some, that if they want to retain both (and wanted to do so on the rookie list) they could get around the rule by delisting Pink and re-drafting him in this year's rookie list, given the likelihood of another club gazumping them seems pretty low. However, my post above suggested there may be other reasons for promoting Fox, not just because they are (or may be) restricted to keeping just one rookie for a third year. I don't know if these reasons are true or not. I am just speculating about what is possible.

And no, we don't have to retain Fox as a rookie if Menzel is recruited as a DFA. The Swans have spent the last decade or so with two fewer than the 40 maximum on their senior list. So Menzel could be recruited, Fox promoted and four players drafted in the ND and the club would still just have a senior list of 39.

[Melbourne_Blood]

So we are going to be Bud centric again. Kick it to Bud. Don't kick it to anyone else no matter how many are in the bester position.

Yep that’s exactly what I said, let’s get Menzel so we can kick it to buddy every time . Geez your good wolfy.


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[Ludwig]

I am fully aware that other sites have reported news about those players not mentioned on the Swans' own site. My comments on the lack of news from the Swans' own site (echoed by others on here) are intended as a dig at the club, in the vain hope that someone might be reading and decide to do something about their very mediocre website (in many ways).

In terms of rookie rules, it's not in question that clubs are allowed to retain a rookie for a third year. However, it used to be a rule that you could only retain one third year rookie. It's specifically that which I don't know if it has changed or not. If you're only allowed to retain one third year rookie, that could explain why Fox is reportedly to be promoted since the club also seems intent on retaining Pink. It has been suggested, by some, that if they want to retain both (and wanted to do so on the rookie list) they could get around the rule by delisting Pink and re-drafting him in this year's rookie list, given the likelihood of another club gazumping them seems pretty low. However, my post above suggested there may be other reasons for promoting Fox, not just because they are (or may be) restricted to keeping just one rookie for a third year. I don't know if these reasons are true or not. I am just speculating about what is possible.

And no, we don't have to retain Fox as a rookie if Menzel is recruited as a DFA. The Swans have spent the last decade or so with two fewer than the 40 maximum on their senior list. So Menzel could be recruited, Fox promoted and four players drafted in the ND and the club would still just have a senior list of 39.

This accurately covers all the points.

The bottom line is that we cannot do all of the following:

1. Elevate Fox to the primary list.
2. Take a DFA, e.g. Menzel.
3. Take 4 picks in the National Draft.
4. Maintain the primary list size at 38.

Something will have to give here, but it's not yet clear what it is. It seems more likely than not, just based on the media coverage, that if Menzel gets through the medical, we will sign him up. It's reasonable to question the accuracy of the reporting of the Fox elevation on the AFL website given that there is still an open question on signing a DFA and the unusual lack of confirmation by the Swans. There is no doubt that he will be retained for next season and the intent is that he will be elevated to the primary if we don't sign a DFA.

The salary cap differential for carrying an extra spot on the primary instead of the rookie list is no small matter. Section 10(b)(ix) of the CBA states:

10. Total Player Payments:

(b) In calculation of the Total Player Payments for each AFL Club, the following payments will not be taken into account:

(ix) Football Payments to Rookie Players except to the extent that this Agreement provides otherwise;

This could amount to something in area of $150,000. I'm just guessing that this is roughly what Fox would be paid as a base salary. Using the 39th primary list spot has more than a trivial impact on managing the cap space.

I also think we are intent on taking those 3 late second round picks and wouldn't give this up too quickly.

It's for these reasons that I don't fully accept the Fox elevation as a fait accomplis just yet.

[KSAS]

FWIW, I've heard Menzel will come our way as a DFA (which assumes he passed our medical).

[stevoswan]

Have we signed Menzel yet ! #thebigfish

[Aaron]

How the Swans are trying to eliminate recruiting bias - AFL.com.au
An interesting insight into how our recruiters are picking draftees and traded players. They are now relying more on statistical data.

[Markwebbos]

... The club does not normally bring in players unless they believe they can make the best 22. We don't recruit for depth as if that is what we are needing then we would have retained Marsh, Robbo, and Towers who do provide good and and versatile depth but are not the players who will take the Swans to a flag.

That’s a very astute observation

[S.S. Bleeder]

How the Swans are trying to eliminate recruiting bias - AFL.com.au
An interesting insight into how our recruiters are picking draftees and traded players. They are now relying more on statistical data.

Just goes to show that there is much more depth to his game than we plebs will ever know.

[Muttley]

How the Swans are trying to eliminate recruiting bias - AFL.com.au
An interesting insight into how our recruiters are picking draftees and traded players. They are now relying more on statistical data.

I love this stuff. Interesting to read that article. Well done to Kinnear Beatson for getting this new guy in and starting to think differently. The Swans really seem like a pro outfit.
What will be interesting in the next 5 years will be to see how the Saints recruiting ends up.
We might get some insights in to how much culture matters (one way or the other).

[ugg]

If you’re interested in that topic, I highly recommend Ted Richards’ podcast which was mentioned in that interview, where he interviews Chris Keane.

[YvonneH]

In that article on AFL.com.au it says 'newly promoted Beatson'. Did I miss something? From what to what?

[Aaron]

In that article on AFL.com.au it says 'newly promoted Beatson'. Did I miss something? From what to what?

He was Recruiting Manager but since 2018, he is "General" Manager - Recruiting and List Strategy

[YvonneH]

He was Recruiting Manager but since 2018, he is "General" Manager - Recruiting and List Strategy

Thanks Aaron.

[chuckie]

According to Daniel Menzel wiki page he has played for Geelong from 2010-2018 73 games 136 goals.
Sydney 2019- 0 0.
Do they know something that we don't.
Interestingly he has a better goal rate than Nick Davis who couldn't tackle either but is a premiership player.

[liz]

According to Daniel Menzel wiki page he has played for Geelong from 2010-2018 73 games 136 goals.
Sydney 2019- 0 0.
Do they know something that we don't.
Interestingly he has a better goal rate than Nick Davis who couldn't tackle either but is a premiership player.

Well, it's certainly true that he's played no games for Sydney in 2019. Not yet.

I wonder how long Davis would have lasted in today's game. His pressure skills and work-rate were barely OK for a decade or more ago. I think he'd struggle to get a game today. That said, the club clearly likes something he has to offer, given the variety of coaching roles he's undertaken since coming back to the club (which coincided with the departure of Roos - I suspect Longmire always got along with him better than Roos did).