2018 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Markwebbos]

We do seem to have strayed a long long way off topic. I’m really hoping that we do sign up Menzel

[Markwebbos]

Peeps! I have to apologise for introducing his name into this thread. But not to debate his pros and cons. I should have realised he's Mr Vegemite, one of Australia's most divisive figures.
Difficult as it is, could the Kennett conversation be taken elsewhere?

And can we get back to discussing DFA and the upcoming draft?

[liz]

Peeps! I have to apologise for introducing his name into this thread. But not to debate his pros and cons. I should have realised he's Mr Vegemite, one of Australia's most divisive figures.
Difficult as it is, could the Kennett conversation be taken elsewhere?

And can we get back to discussing DFA and the upcoming draft?

Per MW's suggestion, the Kennett discussion has been moved to its own thread in the Open Chat forum. Please continue any further discussion on the topic there.

[Scottee]

Agree on Menzel, he's a crafty player who can be relied on to kick a couple most weeks, opposition defenders need to man him up, which can only help the likes of Buddy.

As for Pink, he was the last player taken a few years ago for good reason. He hasn't shown anything to date that would suggest a successful AFL career.

Don't agree Ernie, as the youngest player on the list he showed plenty in 2017 and even kicked 5 goals on one occasion. I wouldn't base my opinions on this years injury plagued season.

Sent from my ZTE BLADE A610 using Tapatalk

[Melbourne_Blood]

Have we signed Menzel yet ! #thebigfish


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wolftone57]

I know there are fitness and defensive pressure concerns with Menzel, but he's the only DFA being considered who is a legitimate best 22 player. I can't see adding depth players, like Sutcliffe, to the primary list who might be slightly better than the ones we've just delisted, if that.

If he passes the medical, I think he's worth a shot on a 1 year contract, if that's acceptable to him.

If we take him, I would delist Pink and redraft him to the rookie with our final pick and leave Fox as a 3rd year rookie. I believe Pink was the last player taken in the draft 2 years ago, so if nobody wanted him then, I can't see anyone taking him now. It's not like he's done anything special since he's been at the Swans.

Pink is already a Rookie and we don't need to delist any more players anyway. There is plenty of room as we delisted Towers, Marsh, Foote and Robbo. Then Tippett retired. Hannas, Newman and Rohan went elsewhere. That is eight senior list spots available. even if we are upgrading Ronke and Fax, and we are, there are still six spots we can fill. Blakey fills one and two to three draft picks. That leaves two to three spots.

[KTigers]

Don't they have doctors in LA?

The club can't afford them BC. Cheaper to fly home. I'm only sort of joking.

[wolftone57]

I’m from WA to. Australia wide its not non existent. It’s the number one sport in NSW & Qld which dwarf the traditional Aussie rules states population wise.

As for cricket you may be over it but attendances suggests a lot of the population isn’t.

From your point of view Foxtel may not be worth it but in regards to Foxtel for a lot of people it’s still worth keeping.

They don't dwarf the traditional AFL states. Victoria is the second largest state, population wise, in Australia. Added together all the AFL states add up to less than a million less than Qld & NSW put together. Now when you add to that people in those states who only follow AFL or NRL the figure is staggeringly toward AFL. All the Murray/Darling towns in NSW are overwhelmingly AFL. Broken Hill, Wentworth, Albury. Moama etc as well as parts of Northern NSW and Gold coast are very mixed, about 50/50. Add to that a pretty big AFL following in Sydney now and NRL is definitely on the decline. Soccer has more kids playing than any other sport in Aus except girls sport where Netball is the most popular. But after about 14 the numbers drop. That is because Soccer clubs actually cull the teams at 14.

[wolftone57]

Have you watched the cats ? They aren’t much better than us in terms of forward delivery. A forward who knows when and where to lead to makes it much easier on the player with the ball. Menzel ain’t a gun but he is a natural forward and I don’t see any reason why we shouldn’t have a crack when he comes cheap and we need goal kickers . At the very least he may lead into some space to create some room for Bud. Literally nobody in our current side does that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So we are going to be Bud centric again. Kick it to Bud. Don't kick it to anyone else no matter how many are in the bester position.

[wolftone57]

Agree on Menzel, he's a crafty player who can be relied on to kick a couple most weeks, opposition defenders need to man him up, which can only help the likes of Buddy.

As for Pink, he was the last player taken a few years ago for good reason. He hasn't shown anything to date that would suggest a successful AFL career.

I thought he was quite good as a very young project player. But this year he got injured and never really made it onto the park either fit or in good match condition.

[liz]

That is eight senior list spots available. even if we are upgrading Ronke and Fax, and we are, there are still six spots we can fill. Blakey fills one and two to three draft picks. That leaves two to three spots.

You're ignoring that Clarke and Thurlow have already filled two of those spots. And Beatson has said the club intends to take four players at the National Draft (including Blakey). That can change, of course, but it's their publicly stated intention.

I do agree Pink is irrelevant to senior list management numbers. I think people are referring to his position in relation to whether Fox needs to be upgraded. There used to be a rule that you could only retain one third year rookie on the rookie list but I have no idea if that rule exists. The AFL continuously tinkers with the rookie list rules and is as good at making them public as the Swans are about telling us what's going on with rookie listed players.

Of course, the decision to upgrade Fox (or not, given we're still somewhat guessing) may have nothing to do with rookie list rules or list management mechanics. They may just think he's earned a place on the senior spot, or his manager has demanded one for him to stay at the club.

[wolftone57]

Even though the Swans have omitted to make any comment on their own website re Fox, it's pretty clear from his season review video that he'll be on the list next season. Blakey's comments about what he achieved in 2018 and what could he could provide in 2019 are more enthusiastic than Fox's own comments.

2018 Season Review - Robbie Fox - sydneyswans.com.au

Fox was offered a contract earlier in the week. As were Maibaum and Pink. All were offered one year deals and Fox was upgraded to the main list. Are you in a bubble this year Liz because this has been up on the AFl website since the 29th October, list deadline article. If you're waiting for info from our site you'll die never knowing.

Who doesn't have a deal ahead of contract deadline day? - AFL.com.au

- - - Updated - - -

Menzel pick-up does seem like a no-brainer to me if the terms are right.

I like Papley and Ronke as small forward options but to be honest, Papley's 2018 was well down on 2016-17, and Ronke had one freak game. I hope they can get to the next level next season.

for crying out loud the guy started the season without a full pre-season due to an op. He took a while to get fitness and then match fitness but when he did he was wonderful. His second half of the season especially.

[wolftone57]

As per the article Magic Merkin has provided a link to, it's been reported on the AFL site. I just don't think I've seen any comments on the Swans' own site, despite them announcing that Maibaum and Rose had each signed for another year. Pink and Bell are others whose fate we've had to rely on other news sources to learn about. I have little doubt these sources are factual and accurate. I just find it weird that the Swans themselves rarely seem to acknowledge that rookie listed players even exist.

Bell signed way back. After season assessment and before Trade Period I think? The Swans site is just the pits. They tell you nothing. I don't bother getting much from there any-more. I only look there as a last resort. Best places are; AFL.com, FOX, NEAFL (on NEAFL stuff they are slow but it does go up), ESPN, The Age, 7 Sport. forget our site unless you hear a rumour and can't find anything on all other sites. Then try ours as a last resort. Worst media of any AFL club. Mind you the coaches and Footy department might want it that way.

[wolftone57]

You're ignoring that Clarke and Thurlow have already filled two of those spots. And Beatson has said the club intends to take four players at the National Draft (including Blakey). That can change, of course, but it's their publicly stated intention.

I do agree Pink is irrelevant to senior list management numbers. I think people are referring to his position in relation to whether Fox needs to be upgraded. There used to be a rule that you could only retain one third year rookie on the rookie list but I have no idea if that rule exists. The AFL continuously tinkers with the rookie list rules and is as good at making them public as the Swans are about telling us what's going on with rookie listed players.

Of course, the decision to upgrade Fox (or not, given we're still somewhat guessing) may have nothing to do with rookie list rules or list management mechanics. They may just think he's earned a place on the senior spot, or his manager has demanded one for him to stay at the club.

We had eight spots. Two trades, two upgrades and four drafts, if indeed we draft four. But if we do Fox obviously doesn't get an upgrade. Fox would only be a third year Rookie in 2019. I looked at the rules this week and they have not changed so he could still stay as a third year rookie. By the looks of it if Menzel did join us he could not be upgraded unless they downgrade someone else.

[rb4x]

I expect the club to be going to a senior list of 39 this year to accommodate the Fox upgrade and a DFA (hopefully Menzel) being brought on board. With Tippett, Hanners and Rohan gone along with five other modestly paid players and the two incoming not expected to be on high dollars we should now have the cap space to go to 39 and even 40 if we want to bring in two DFA. I don't mind Townsend but fail to see where Sutcliffe would fit into our best 22. The club does not normally bring in players unless they believe they can make the best 22. We don't recruit for depth as if that is what we are needing then we would have retained Marsh, Robbo, and Towers who do provide good and and versatile depth but are not the players who will take the Swans to a flag.