2021 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[giant]

The other consideration is the cyclic nature of AFL. Who knows how long big midfielders will go out of vogue for? The demise of the ruckman has been predicted so often, yet they seem back in favour again.
FWIW I think as long as they have sufficient pace to avoid being a liability, there'll be places in squads for all sorts of midfielders including those whose primary attribute is brute strength.

I was surprised to note that Pat Lipinski, whom the Swans were apparently interested in at one point, clocked in at 190cm. Admittedly he's meant to be a forward/mid but that's still a good size.

[giant]

Yes, I was just going to post much the same thing, about the fallacy of pretending that nothing has changed over the last 25 years or so, and then doubling down on that silliness, by using that fallacy to claim that the system in its present form can't be criticised.

I won't repeat your arguments, but I'll just add a few stats. Since us taking Roosy in 1995 was mentioned, I looked up how many players were taken in the PSD, at around that time. In the five drafts from 1993 to 97, the number was 216. In the last five drafts, there's been four. And two of those, Martin and Hately, were holdouts.

That's an extraordinary stat!

[The Big Cat]

The Dawson situation illustrates two things the AFL has to address:

The PSD - As Andrew Pridham as eloquently stated, it was never designed to handle the movement of elite players. It is now no more than a tool for blackmail.

THE SOLUTION
The AFL have a disputes resolution committee similar to the Free Agent compensation set up. If parties can't agree then this committee hands down the number of points they believe that player is worth and that is paid by the destination club to the departing club in the next year's draft.

COLA - People on here have addressed the fact that even though Dawson's salary at the Crow's is little different to what the Swan's offered, its real value is much higher given the CoL differential between the two cities.

THE SOLUTION
Instead of the Commission risking the ridicule it would receive by reintroducing COLA in its original form, why don't they introduce a flat salary cap with EVERY AFL city having an add-on coefficient based on the ABS official data surrounding relative CoLs. So EVERY club would receive a COLA allowance. It's just that, say, Adelaide many have a COLA of 2% compared to 15% in Sydney etc etc etc.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

That is a very narrow view of the world. I tend to believe Jordan was sincere when he communicated fans had nothing to worry about, but things change.

In which case, he could have included an apology for the "don't worry" comment amongst his recent utterances. The absence just makes him look skivey.

For all we know the contract offer from Sydney increased over time, if they had of put our best foot forward earlier in the year he could have remained.

You could be right, and if he had of signed, I would have been surprised if we hadn't been willing to trade him home to SA if we could get resonable recompense - wasn't that the case with Jetta (my memory's a bit hazy)?

[Roadrunner]

Looking at 2 fringe players in Bell and Ronke- what should we do? Bell may have an option in his contract, but for the sake of the exercise:
Kicking for goal: both below average
Marking ability: average or below
Speed: good but mainly without the ball; not very useful!
General play: below average
Potential to improve: very little, if any
Opportunities: Bell yes, Ronke limited since his injury

Conclusion: both are list cloggers and if we delisted Ling, they should be next.

Much rather give their spot to young Sheather or even Squizzy if he can get fit!

[chalbilto]

Looking at 2 fringe players in Bell and Ronke- what should we do? Bell may have an option in his contract, but for the sake of the exercise:
Kicking for goal: both below average
Marking ability: average or below
Speed: good but mainly without the ball; not very useful!
General play: below average
Potential to improve: very little, if any
Opportunities: Bell yes, Ronke limited since his injury

Conclusion: both are list cloggers and if we delisted Ling, they should be next.

Much rather give their spot to young Sheather or even Squizzy if he can get fit!

+1

[Roadrunner]

Why does Jordan owe the club something because he is now above average and had a good year?

If we apply your logic to this scenario then the club owes Matt Ling another contract because he worked hard and was unlucky with injuries and was below average.

Maybe Sam Reid is owed something by the club for his hard fought decade?

Jordan owes Sydney nothing and Sydney owe Sam Reid nothing. This is business and both sides play the game.

Bangalore, please read my post again- I didn’t say Jordan OWES the club: I said the WAY he chose to depart was bad.
However, the club did help to develop him and gave him the chance to achieve. The same was given to Matt Ling but unfortunately his injuries prevented his development so the club decided time was up.

Sammy is in a different situation due to his age, but the club will treat him fairly, I’m sure.

Of course AFL is a business, but our club has members and supporters, not shareholders so it’s not about $$’s

[rickmat]

Why do you think a team with an aging midfield would get rid of a big young inside midfielder like Charlie Constable? Stephen Wells is a very clever list manager.

Even when Josh Kennedy goes, we are not going to look for a like for like replacement. We don't want a like for like replacement, as good as JPK has been. We have evolved into a different team requiring different kinds of players.

The Swans want midfielders who are quick and can move the ball out of the congestion and get it forward before the opposition get a chance to set their defence. Those are the type of midfielders we will be looking for in the draft or recruiting from other clubs.

Ludwig, there is a young mid in the draft called Sheldrick from WA who has been BOG in the WA Colts as well as State side this last season. He is a young bull, ballgetter and distributor to outside runners. He also kicks goals. He is written up on the ESPN AFL page as one of the "best mids" in the draft. I feel there is room for a young ballgetter in our 22 to feed the great runners we already have.

[707]

ALL THIS DAWSON BASHING IS BORING!

Dawson picture front page of the Adelaide Advertiser (Murdoch) this morning "Crows new Heir Jordan" and has the wholeback page of the paper to himself.

He explains that the being away from Sydney on the road for the last half of the season and Covid border restrictions were wearing him down, he got home to Robe to do his two weeks quarantine and it was during that period he made up his mind.

I feel sad and sorry that some posters want to pile vitriol on Jordan for making a decision like this. Remember, this is their job. If you were in Jordan's situation and another employer in your home state offered you more money to do the same job amid the uncertainty of Covid going forward then you'd probably move.

Clubs push out players all the time, this is just the reverse, get over it. The fact that Cows were at the pointy end of the draft is what hurt us but that's for the VFL to sort out before GC gets taken to the cleaners next year.

So how about we stop the juvenile attacks on Dawson, recognise it for what it is, and move forward.

My way of looking at this trade period is

Our 2022 third rounder will probably be in the 50's and we probably wouldn't have used it anyway so it cost us nothing

We lost Dawson and had a four pick first round slide, we gained Ladhams who is a need and upgraded a 2022 pick in the 50s to pick 18'ish. That pick will be valuable next year when I believe we may have three academy draftees?

Liz, can we make a thread just for Dawson talk, which I am so over, and revert this thread to discussion about the upcoming ND, pick swaps, DFA to target etc.

We did quite ok as a sum across both trades

[TheBloods]

ALL THIS DAWSON BASHING IS BORING!

Dawson picture front page of the Adelaide Advertiser (Murdoch) this morning "Crows new Heir Jordan" and has the wholeback page of the paper to himself.

He explains that the being away from Sydney on the road for the last half of the season and Covid border restrictions were wearing him down, he got home to Robe to do his two weeks quarantine and it was during that period he made up his mind.

I feel sad and sorry that some posters want to pile vitriol on Jordan for making a decision like this. Remember, this is their job. If you were in Jordan's situation and another employer in your home state offered you more money to do the same job amid the uncertainty of Covid going forward then you'd probably move.

Clubs push out players all the time, this is just the reverse, get over it. The fact that Cows were at the pointy end of the draft is what hurt us but that's for the VFL to sort out before GC gets taken to the cleaners next year.

So how about we stop the juvenile attacks on Dawson, recognise it for what it is, and move forward.

My way of looking at this trade period is

Our 2022 third rounder will probably be in the 50's and we probably wouldn't have used it anyway so it cost us nothing

We lost Dawson and had a four pick first round slide, we gained Ladhams who is a need and upgraded a 2022 pick in the 50s to pick 18'ish. That pick will be valuable next year when I believe we may have three academy draftees?

Liz, can we make a thread just for Dawson talk, which I am so over, and revert this thread to discussion about the upcoming ND, pick swaps, DFA to target etc.

We did quite ok as a sum across both trades

Agree move on who the F cares what he does , its done now we 'll have the last laugh

would rather a flag with no Dawson , than a wooden spoon with him

[Markwebbos]

Ludwig, there is a young mid in the draft called Sheldrick from WA who has been BOG in the WA Colts as well as State side this last season. He is a young bull, ballgetter and distributor to outside runners. He also kicks goals. He is written up on the ESPN AFL page as one of the "best mids" in the draft. I feel there is room for a young ballgetter in our 22 to feed the great runners we already have.

He sounds so good he might end up bolting too far to be in contention for our first pick: He went head to head against JH-F in the WA v SA game and beat him!

AFL Draft 2021 Chris Doerre Knightmare's Weekly Wrap - Angus Sheldrick announces himself for Western Australia

An impressive stoppage midfielder, the 17-year-old is a strong-bodied stoppage specialist with a height and build akin to Lachie Neale. At 179cm and 88kg, Sheldrick is strong over the ball and routinely wins first possession, works hard around the ground to receive loose ball gets, possesses an explosive burst of speed, shrugs tackles and tackles with intent, plays a strong two-way game and hits the scoreboard.

Currently doesn't appear in any top-20 or top-30 I could find.

[707]

Quite a number of WA players currently rated in the 5-25 range. Freo with picks 6, 8, 19 and WC with pick 10 in strong positions to take a number of them.

Angus Sheldrick yet to appear in a Top 30 list but looks to have tools and form to move up boards.

With so little Vic U18 form to go on, this could be an interesting draft and at pick 16 we are still nicely placed to grab a KPD if that's what we want.

[mcs]

Quite a number of WA players currently rated in the 5-25 range. Freo with picks 6, 8, 19 and WC with pick 10 in strong positions to take a number of them.

Angus Sheldrick yet to appear in a Top 30 list but looks to have tools and form to move up boards.

With so little Vic U18 form to go on, this could be an interesting draft and at pick 16 we are still nicely placed to grab a KPD if that's what we want.

I suspect there will be a lot of bargains found in this draft, because the focus is on a fairly narrow part of the pool where there is a lot of exposed form, and a significant part of the pool where the information we have is much lower than normal. It may sort the good recruiters from the bad ones more than normal I expect.

[liz]

It may sort the good recruiters from the bad ones more than normal I expect.

Or the lucky from the less fortunate.

[mcs]

Or the lucky from the less fortunate.

Indeed that may also be the case Liz. But I suspect the better recruiters will be more able to make use of what evidence is available about the 'less viewed' part of the draft to make the right calls.

Going to be interesting!