2022 List management, trading, drafting

[Maltopia]

When everyone is healthy, we find it difficult playing all the key forwards that deserve a spot. We ostensibly have 4 spots for 6 players: Hickey, Ladhams, Franklin, Reid, McDonald and Amartey. But this kind of depth with this player mix seems okay.

I don't think history is all that relevant when making decisions about the balance between the draft and recruiting. There are many paths to making a good list. There's no magic formula. You just have to see what players are on board and what the needs are. If you can't fill the requirements from the current list and the draft, then try to fill the shortfall with recruits. We have lost a lot of good players in recent years due to salary cap constraints. We should be rightfully wary of getting ourselves back in a TPP hole. Many, including me, were surprised when it was reported that George Hewett was earning 600k pa. Probably most of our players are earning more than we would estimate.

We recruited both Hickey and Ladhams to fill a need, mainly because we lost all of our ruckmen for one reason or another. Fringe players, like Clarke, are usually easy to find. Midfielders, in general, are easy to find, even good ones. We certainly don't have an excess of fringe players. So the question is which players now in our team would we like to drop in favour of a recruit that we hope will do better.

Some on here are not happy with Florent and Hayward so I will use them as an example. I don't agree with that opinion, but recognise that many on here do.

Both are contracted until 2024, and I'm sure on good money. So if we did find players who we think could do better, what would we do with Florent and Hayward? They may not want a trade, so we would have to carry a couple of high priced players to play in the VFL.

Each recruitment should be handled on it's own merits. Who do we want to replace and replaced by whom? How do we pay for the recruitment? What happens to other players on the list vying for the same spot as the new recruit? Players like Sheather, Corey Warner, HKK, Ronke and Wicks would be affected by recruiting replacements for Florent and Hayward as they drop farther down the pecking order.

Hi Ludwig. Re your first point about 4 players vying for 6 spots, that will only be the case for one to two more years. Buddy is contemplating one more year, and Hickey will be 32?

Re your second point, we get the same issue whenever you draft someone too. Say we bundle up our two first round draft picks and get a top 10 midfielder - Stephens, Campbell, Gus and Roberts will have competition. Same if we get a top ten KPP with Almartey and McClean (if a forward) or Gould and Melican (if a back). Players need to compete for their spots, and if a better player is recruited than you, then you need to improve to get your spot in the firsts, or try your luck elsewhere. I am sorry, but I don't think your second point has merit, because it is happening every year with the draft picks already.

The teams also now have psychologists etc, and players have access to them to give them strategies to deal with the challenges of selection and competition for spors. It is a sport and a culture, but it is also a business, and sometimes players will have disappointments that they need to deal with.

[KTigers]

JPK (hasn't retired yet!), Franklin, Parker, Rampe, Reid, Heeney, Mills, Papley & Lloyd have all played and lost a Grand Final. That's a pretty decent bunch of seasoned performers.

Yes, but 16 was a while ago now (I know it's always there gnawing away in background for many of us) and we've only played two losing
finals in the last four seasons.
Winning from the bottom half of the eight takes some real consistency or in case of the Dogs some help from the third team on the field.

[Nico]

I agree with Ludwig's proposition that you don't replace Great players, like for like. In this case Franklin.

I don't dismiss a long term structural role for McLean as a deep forward. He is a strong pack mark, and accurate kick. He will develop the football nous to keep a key defender accountable; leaving space for mobile talls like Amartey and McDonald, and mid forwards like Heaney and Haywood.

The game plan is tweaked, as it needs to be as Franklin (and the rejuvenated Reid) move on after this year - or 2023.

Maybe we need a thread on who inherits the senior coach role, to refresh the game plan; and when

I don't think McLean has the speed or agility to be a consistent key forward. Very slow when the ball hits the ground. Big "statue" full forwards are too easily beaten. Amartey has far more potnetial.

[SwanSand]

Even though Bud and Rampe are still playing and contributing well, I believe we have moved past depending on them. We seem to play well enough when Buddy is missing. And Rampe is no longer the focal point of our defence. It seems more balanced now, with the intercept marking of Paddy and the run and carry of Blakey. The transition away from those past stars seems to be happening seamlessly, as it should be.

I agree that it's important to find a replacement for Rampe, and I hope Gould will be the one.

We should try and be top 2 in the next 2-4 years - which is the peak of powers for a lot of our team - Mills, Heeney , Papley, McCartins, Warner, Blakey, Mcinerney
But this next 2-4 years will also see the loss of Kennedy, Buddy, Rampe, Hickey, And Parker (at least his peak performance)
I don’t see Logan, Amartey, Ladhams, Gould to be absolutely at elite level for us to be top 2 especially Logan And Amartey combining for 80-90goals a season.
Bottom 6 at present - Hayward, Stephens, wicks/bell, Cunningham, Fox may or may not be there.
The ruck situation is going to be a problem too. Ladhams has done well but surely he won’t be enough in that position.
This is the natural evolution of the list which is why we will need to keep our trading options open over the next 2 years to get the right players through.

But while the list is currently looking good too especially in the next 1-2 years the assessment should be how close to the top 2 are we with our list and if we are close to the top then we should load reasonably to get there sooner rather than later given we still have a good bunch of players with good depth in the reserves.

[gloveski]

I think we will get a good look at how our midfield stacks up this weekend . Playing Freo who have big/tall bodies like Fyfe , Brodie and Mundy . Other than Mills we have a relatively short midfield .

Priorities for the future for me .

Tall midfielder
Running half back ie another version of Blakey
Elite small defensive/forward
3rd defender in the Rampe mould ( this potentially could be Gould)

Go to the draft and get the best two youngsters from the first round that fit our needs

Priority long term signings
Mills
Chad
Mccartins
Blakey
Papley


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[Aprilbr]

King on SEN radio this morning said with ball in hand we are as good as anyone, but we currently have a deficiency in his words of "an inside, clearance beast". Is that player currently developing on our list? Kennedy used to be the guy but he is too slow now. If not, then we probably need to go and recruit one from elsewhere.

[bloodspirit]

King on SEN radio this morning said with ball in hand we are as good as anyone, but we currently have a deficiency in his words of "an inside, clearance beast". Is that player currently developing on our list? Kennedy used to be the guy but he is too slow now. If not, then we probably need to go and recruit one from elsewhere.

Don't know but Sheldrick is my best bet. Still he's not going to get there tomorrow. What about Clarke? - isn't his issue what he does with the ball once he gets it?

If we did recruit an "inside clearance beast", whose spot would you give them? Rowbottom's? I like Rowbottom and I hope he's going to go from decent player to something even better (time is on his side) but right now he'd have to be the most vulnerable.

[Ludwig]

There are going to be differences in opinion about where our list is at and where the team is at in challenging for a flag. I don't know if Logan and Amartey will be a strong 1--2 forward line punch, or if Ladhams will become a high level ruckmen, but the signs look good atm. Only the passage of time will tell the story. It's a bit too early to make a call on what our needs are when the picture is changing week by week. I take a conservative approach with recruiting. When the McCartins are fit and firing, our KPDs look great, but if there's a serious injury, then we really look undermanned in that area. It's better to wait as long as possible before committing to a recruit to shore up a position that may not need it, because another position could become problematic at any time.

If the season was over now, I would just go to the draft with our 3 top draft picks and look to improve the list that way. I would put a priority on KPPs, perhaps taking 2 with the 3 picks, if we like who's available at our selection. If a good recruiting opportunity came up, I think we should pursue it, but I wouldn't go chasing a high profile player looking for a big payout. At least, not at this time.

[Ludwig]

King on SEN radio this morning said with ball in hand we are as good as anyone, but we currently have a deficiency in his words of "an inside, clearance beast". Is that player currently developing on our list? Kennedy used to be the guy but he is too slow now. If not, then we probably need to go and recruit one from elsewhere.

We have a good balance of clearance players. Chad hasn't quite shown it yet, but he is developing into a clearance beast. It's not the numbers so much, but rather the quality of his clearances when he bursts from the centre. Rowbottom is also not bad. He only needs a split second to deliver the ball to the forward line with a penetrating and very often accurate kick. It's better to have several players rather than just one beast, because the opposition can't tag the entire midfield. Our stoppage work around the ground has been generally good, with lots of players contributing, including Heeney. We could improve the defensive side of stoppages in our defensive 50. We tend to miss a lot of coverages, but we should improve with experience.

[SwanSand]

We have a good balance of clearance players. Chad hasn't quite shown it yet, but he is developing into a clearance beast. It's not the numbers so much, but rather the quality of his clearances when he bursts from the centre. Rowbottom is also not bad. He only needs a split second to deliver the ball to the forward line with a penetrating and very often accurate kick. It's better to have several players rather than just one beast, because the opposition can't tag the entire midfield. Our stoppage work around the ground has been generally good, with lots of players contributing, including Heeney. We could improve the defensive side of stoppages in our defensive 50. We tend to miss a lot of coverages, but we should improve with experience.

The nature of the game has changed with regards to the clearance beasts. With the current 6-6-6 formation you want fast players rather than the plodding defence first mentality players in the middle. Kennedy thrived in the era where secondary stoppages worked well. But in todays era the fast clearances work better especially the centre clearances. Chad is excellent and so is Mills and so was Papley in the middle last week and Mcinerney at the start of the year.
Clearance beasts now have a different skill set than Kennedy. The idea is to create > 3 goals from this source every match.
Agree about the defensive side of stoppages.

[SwanSand]

If a good recruiting opportunity came up, I think we should pursue it, but I wouldn't go chasing a high profile player looking for a big payout. At least, not at this time.

Good opportunities come all the time but there is always a dent in salary cap and on draft that we need to consider. But hopefully the decisions are made for the right reasons of winning the flag rather than for commercial reasons like it would be if we were to pursue Dusty.

[Aprilbr]

Don't know but Sheldrick is my best bet. Still he's not going to get there tomorrow. What about Clarke? - isn't his issue what he does with the ball once he gets it?

If we did recruit an "inside clearance beast", whose spot would you give them? Rowbottom's? I like Rowbottom and I hope he's going to go from decent player to something even better (time is on his side) but right now he'd have to be the most vulnerable.

Sheldrick could develop but will take time. Same with Roberts. I guess when King talks about clearance beast he is thinking of big bodied players like Cripps, Tom Green etc. I am a Rowbottom fan too and I thought he was one of the players who really set the tone early against the Dogs. At this point though he does not have the size to be considered a beast. Players can build themselves up to it though. Look at Lachie Neale. When first drafted to Freo he was a lightly built mid but now has the strength and speed to really extract. That's what Rowbottom should strive for.

[TheBloods]

We need Taranto . Old mates with Florent , get in his ear , at least then he would finally do something for us

[Aprilbr]

There are going to be differences in opinion about where our list is at and where the team is at in challenging for a flag. I don't know if Logan and Amartey will be a strong 1--2 forward line punch, or if Ladhams will become a high level ruckmen, but the signs look good atm. Only the passage of time will tell the story. It's a bit too early to make a call on what our needs are when the picture is changing week by week. I take a conservative approach with recruiting. When the McCartins are fit and firing, our KPDs look great, but if there's a serious injury, then we really look undermanned in that area. It's better to wait as long as possible before committing to a recruit to shore up a position that may not need it, because another position could become problematic at any time.

If the season was over now, I would just go to the draft with our 3 top draft picks and look to improve the list that way. I would put a priority on KPPs, perhaps taking 2 with the 3 picks, if we like who's available at our selection. If a good recruiting opportunity came up, I think we should pursue it, but I wouldn't go chasing a high profile player looking for a big payout. At least, not at this time.

I tend to agree with going to the draft with those picks unless a really good trade option presents. Best available would be my preferred option. Most of the mooted trade targets seem to want to return to Victoria anyway rather than go interstate. Dusty will be too expensive and cost us too much in picks to pick him up. Our President seems to have ruled this move out anyway despite the Melbourne media continuing to run with it.

[Aprilbr]

We need Taranto . Old mates with Florent , get in his ear , at least then he would finally do something for us

He is definitely worth a chat but seems keen on a return to Melbourne.