2022 List management, trading, drafting

[Kafka's Ghost]

We don’t have a cap problem, allegedly, but we do have to turnover our list. I REALLY hope Gould makes it somehow.

Josh Kennedy will retire.
Cal Sinclair likely to retire, same with Sam Naismith.
Lewis Taylor will be cut. Possibly Colin O’Riordan too, sadly for him. Poor guy’s been injured every time he looks like stringing a few games together.


Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

[Aprilbr]

I don't see huge changes to our list at season's end. We may well have a couple ask to be traded for better opportunities though. For example, we have McLean, McDonald, Armetey, Buddy and Reid competing for 3 spots. I could see either McLean or Armetey asking for a trade. Melican and Gould are playing reasonably well but cannot get a senior slot. I think we need to keep both of them, Melican as a backup for the McCartins and Gould as heir to the Great Dane. Some fringe players like Taylor and Sinclair may go. It will be interesting to watch come season's end.

[Ludwig]

Our list is very good. The one thing we don't have any more is JPK. He is a huge hole and sure we could try and trade for someone
near to his experience and caliber for next year and beyond but it will be very difficult. Taranto is good but he is no JPK of a few years
ago. It's likely he never will be.

I don't concur with the like for like strategy, because it's nearly impossible to replace the truly great players, like JPK and Franklin. We just have to accept that these kind of players are never replaced, but rather the team moves on with a difference mix of players.

As for JPK specifically, I believe we have already moved on. We now have more of a mix of outside and inside play rather than that more stoppage dominant JPK era. Parker is the last one remaining of that era and is still a top level player and very consistent. The new midfield additions of Mills, Rowbottom and Warner form a very good mix of stoppage mids. They're all strong, work hard and play 2 way football. Warner in particular changes the mix from the JPK era, in that we haven't had such a good burst from stoppage player since Goodes left the midfield. We also have several speedy midfield rotation players in Heeney, Papley, Gulden and JMac, who can bring something different to stoppages. Even Ollie has had his moments in the midfield, although now he looks more likely to remain in defence.

Sheldrick is a compact and powerful ground level player who should become another high level stoppage player. I don't know how JPK breaks into the side this year unless we have injuries. I still feel that he remains best suited for the medisub role. He's had a great career.

[Goal Sneak]

Our list is very good. The one thing we don't have any more is JPK. He is a huge hole and sure we could try and trade for someone
near to his experience and caliber for next year and beyond but it will be very difficult. Taranto is good but he is no JPK of a few years
ago. It's likely he never will be.
I always think the centre clearance is crucial. Look at Friday night with all those high balls coming in and Bud and Amartey crashing
around and creating havoc and all that loose ball. It's totally unrealistic to expect the mids to deliver lace out balls to our forwards
from the centre bounces. They are under insane amounts of pressure from four and sometimes six opposition players. It's
mayhem in there and any ball they can get out and towards our end is a win. But it's harder now without the king of the contested
possession.
And as for actually winning the whole shebang, history shows you usually need a bunch of seasoned finals performers who have
gone deep in September and come up short before. There are exceptions of course, but they are pretty rare.

JPK (hasn't retired yet!), Franklin, Parker, Rampe, Reid, Heeney, Mills, Papley & Lloyd have all played and lost a Grand Final. That's a pretty decent bunch of seasoned performers.

[i'm-uninformed2]

I tend to agree with the thrust of the last few posts, which is we have done a very good job of rebuilding our list and that given the plethora of young stars who’ll rightly demand good money, we’re best to avoid the expensive and older recruit like Martin.

If we’re going to trade, trade for players who can grow with the current crop. It’s what we did in the early 2000s with blokes like Craig Bolton, and again around 2009-10 with Mummy, Shaw, McGlynn and of course JPK.

This is effectively what we did last year with Ladhams. He’s still relatively young and inexperienced for his position, and if he proves to be the competitive, bullocking ruck he looks likely to be, that’s a big leap forward for our list over the next half dozen years or so.

I think we’re still developing our midfield but will get there as players like Campbell and Sheldrick kick on too. Parker, Mills and Chad are standouts, Gulden is special, we’ve got a couple of solid players like Rowbottom under that, and I’m confident in JMac and Stephens as long term wingers.

If I had to nominate areas of priority:

* having more comfort around Logan’s long term partner. Amarty looks likely, and McLean is ok depth, but we can’t yet be sure.
* a good small at either end of the ground. Neither Wicks or Ronke need to be stars, but you’d want more than we’ve got from them this year. And in defence, I’m a Harry fan but I’d like to know we’re grooming a successor who’s also got run and dash. And Ollie’s inconsistency frustrates me.
* having a good feel for whether Gould will make it or not. That third, flexible defender is a crucial role on most lists.

We have a good hand coming into this years draft and trade position. If we use it well, we will be getting closer to a more complete list.

[TheBloods]

I don't concur with the like for like strategy, because it's nearly impossible to replace the truly great players, like JPK and Franklin. We just have to accept that these kind of players are never replaced, but rather the team moves on with a difference mix of players.

As for JPK specifically, I believe we have already moved on. We now have more of a mix of outside and inside play rather than that more stoppage dominant JPK era. Parker is the last one remaining of that era and is still a top level player and very consistent. The new midfield additions of Mills, Rowbottom and Warner form a very good mix of stoppage mids. They're all strong, work hard and play 2 way football. Warner in particular changes the mix from the JPK era, in that we haven't had such a good burst from stoppage player since Goodes left the midfield. We also have several speedy midfield rotation players in Heeney, Papley, Gulden and JMac, who can bring something different to stoppages. Even Ollie has had his moments in the midfield, although now he looks more likely to remain in defence.

Sheldrick is a compact and powerful ground level player who should become another high level stoppage player. I don't know how JPK breaks into the side this year unless we have injuries. I still feel that he remains best suited for the medisub role. He's had a great career.

You are hard on Mills . He is different from our past mids , more skillful . Speed isnt the only thing thats different in our mids now .

[Aprilbr]

Mills has had a brilliant season. Our most consistent player and good leadership too. I believe he comes out of contract at the end of next season so re-signing him long-term must be a major priority for us. Like Heeney, I cannot see him leaving.

[Blood Fever]

Mills has had a brilliant season. Our most consistent player and good leadership too. I believe he comes out of contract at the end of next season so re-signing him long-term must be a major priority for us. Like Heeney, I cannot see him leaving.

Isn't he co captain?

[Mountain Man]

I agree with Ludwig's proposition that you don't replace Great players, like for like. In this case Franklin.

I don't dismiss a long term structural role for McLean as a deep forward. He is a strong pack mark, and accurate kick. He will develop the football nous to keep a key defender accountable; leaving space for mobile talls like Amartey and McDonald, and mid forwards like Heaney and Haywood.

The game plan is tweaked, as it needs to be as Franklin (and the rejuvenated Reid) move on after this year - or 2023.

Maybe we need a thread on who inherits the senior coach role, to refresh the game plan; and when

[Auntie.Gerald]

I love all our view points and positions we take. I truly feel informed everytime I read this forum. I truly love us taking each other all the way to consider counter views.

I must say though..... I do feel we have a "blindspot" to out own squad.

This is a common theme in sport when following one team and not watching all the games every week of the top teams.

To me.....it seems like over 75% of our forum contributors think that our organic draft development growth will be enough as Kennedy, Bud and Rampe start to leave our squad. I personally disagree. These three guys are one in a decade type players. Well if we are being brutally honest they are over and above one in a decade players. They are the elite of the elite. Teams tick tick around their amaziness.

I sense that the organic growth and development of the teams above us on the table is every bit as good as ours.......yet not many of pur supporters ever consider and or comment about the teams above us continuing a similar positive trajectory??????

Therefore if we are being honest...... we supporters in the majority have a blindspot to the development of other top6 teams vs our swannies.

[Ludwig]

You are hard on Mills . He is different from our past mids , more skillful . Speed isnt the only thing thats different in our mids now .

I didn't say anything negative about Mills. I'm a big fan. I said he was in a strong midfield group. The only mid I gave special mention to was Warner. Overall, I think Mills is our best midfielder right now. I think he's just nudged past Parker. Warner has a shot of passing him if he keeps going at the present rate.

More than the individual players, the midfield mix looks good because they all bring something different. I think Sheldrick could be yet another POD in the midfield. He plays a bit like Lachiee Neale.

[Ludwig]

To me.....it seems like over 75% of our forum contributors think that our organic draft development growth will be enough as Kennedy, Bud and Rampe start to leave our squad. I personally disagree. These three guys are one in a decade type players. Well if we are being brutally honest they are over and above one in a decade players. They are the elite of the elite. Teams tick tick around their amaziness.

The goal of building a list is not so much to have the best list, but to be among the best lists in the league. There are always going to be several clubs with high quality lists. If it were only a matter of list quality that determined premierships, then GWS would have won 8 flags by now.

The critical part is to have a game plan that compliments the list and everyone buys into the game plan. We can use Richmond as an example of a game plan that suited them and was well executed. Of course, they had some pretty good players to go with it, but not necessarily the best in the league.

Even though Bud and Rampe are still playing and contributing well, I believe we have moved past depending on them. We seem to play well enough when Buddy is missing. And Rampe is no longer the focal point of our defence. It seems more balanced now, with the intercept marking of Paddy and the run and carry of Blakey. The transition away from those past stars seems to be happening seamlessly, as it should be.

I agree that it's important to find a replacement for Rampe, and I hope Gould will be the one.

[Markwebbos]

Robbo lavished some pretty huge praise on the Chad in tonight’s tackle. Says if he was reranking the 2019 draft he’d have him number ONE ahead of Rowell, Anderson, Jackson, Serong etc

No Cookies | Herald Sun

[Maltopia]

I'm with Auntie.Gerald on this. Most if not all premiership teams in the past dozen years have had a number of players traded in from other teams. Even our 2012 team had McGlynn (though he didn't play the grannie), Kennedy, Shaw, Richards, Morton, Mumford and maybe a couple of others?

Freo and Collingwood who AG mentioned each have 6-7 players who have played 9+ games in 2022 who were traded in from other clubs.

I am not saying Dusty is the answer, but every year we lose players to other clubs (Cameron, Nankers, Aliir Aliir, Dawson, Hewitt, Newman, Jones, Membrey). I think we would be unwise to rely on the draft alone just because Gulden, Warner and JMac have played more games (and at such a high level) above where we would expect from their draft position and years in the game. Rowbottom has been decent too.

But we are only 1-2 years from losing Kennedy, Franklin, Rampe, and then 1-2 more years from losing Parker and Reid.

We need some more experienced and hardened players to 'replace' these players in the future, as well as give us a boost next year. Even if we draft two KPP, they won't be great ones as we will be looking at two picks in the mid to high teens, where you won't get an Amiss or Gibcus, let alone a King twin.

We have lost Dawson and Hewitt, and although Warner has gotten much better, not sure anyone else in the team has really stepped up further from last year. So to me, it makes sense to trade in more talent, and you have to give something to get something of course. So we would have to entertain trading picks or players.

I would prefer someone younger than Dusty given Rampe, Franklin and Parker are all 30+ (as is Hickey right?), but if the price is right (in draft/players/and salary) I think the Swans should do it. Certainly we were hoping for Darcy Moore and Tom Barrass in recent years, so I think we should keep looking for ways to improve our team.

[Ludwig]

We have lost Dawson and Hewitt, and although Warner has gotten much better, not sure anyone else in the team has really stepped up further from last year. So to me, it makes sense to trade in more talent, and you have to give something to get something of course. So we would have to entertain trading picks or players.

I would prefer someone younger than Dusty given Rampe, Franklin and Parker are all 30+ (as is Hickey right?), but if the price is right (in draft/players/and salary) I think the Swans should do it. Certainly we were hoping for Darcy Moore and Tom Barrass in recent years, so I think we should keep looking for ways to improve our team.

I was upset about trading Aliir because I thought we didn't have enough key defenders. I would have been happy to get a top key defender at the right price. But not being able to recruit Moore or Barrass has let us sign up Paddy McCartin. It's hard to know how these things will work out. It would be a bit difficult to play Moore plus the McCartin brothers the way we set up our defence, yet they all clearly belong at AFL level and not as a backup in the VFL.

It's a difficult balance as to know how many top level KPPs a club should have. When everyone is healthy, we find it difficult playing all the key forwards that deserve a spot. We ostensibly have 4 spots for 6 players: Hickey, Ladhams, Franklin, Reid, McDonald and Amartey. But this kind of depth with this player mix seems okay.

I don't think history is all that relevant when making decisions about the balance between the draft and recruiting. There are many paths to making a good list. There's no magic formula. You just have to see what players are on board and what the needs are. If you can't fill the requirements from the current list and the draft, then try to fill the shortfall with recruits. We have lost a lot of good players in recent years due to salary cap constraints. We should be rightfully wary of getting ourselves back in a TPP hole. Many, including me, were surprised when it was reported that George Hewett was earning 600k pa. Probably most of our players are earning more than we would estimate.

We recruited both Hickey and Ladhams to fill a need, mainly because we lost all of our ruckmen for one reason or another. Fringe players, like Clarke, are usually easy to find. Midfielders, in general, are easy to find, even good ones. We certainly don't have an excess of fringe players. So the question is which players now in our team would we like to drop in favour of a recruit that we hope will do better.

Some on here are not happy with Florent and Hayward so I will use them as an example. I don't agree with that opinion, but recognise that many on here do.

Both are contracted until 2024, and I'm sure on good money. So if we did find players who we think could do better, what would we do with Florent and Hayward? They may not want a trade, so we would have to carry a couple of high priced players to play in the VFL.

Each recruitment should be handled on it's own merits. Who do we want to replace and replaced by whom? How do we pay for the recruitment? What happens to other players on the list vying for the same spot as the new recruit? Players like Sheather, Corey Warner, HKK, Ronke and Wicks would be affected by recruiting replacements for Florent and Hayward as they drop farther down the pecking order.