2024 List Management

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  • Dow
    Regular in the Side
    • Sep 2022
    • 628

    Originally posted by Auntie.Gerald
    If we are taking the view of going again with trades while we are in a window then everything is on the table except Errol

    Patch Adams for me may even agitate for a trade if he and the club mutually feel he is likely to not feature in the best 22 as much in 2025

    in years gone by Patch very strong contested but the game moves so fast now that his micro delays in passing when it’s on and or forcing it when it’s not on may mean a mutual decision if another club wanted him ?

    lets be honest ……. We need depth and we need experience and I get that if Luke Parker is on $800k pa approx then it makes sense to use his $ as an older player for securing a couple of our gems in Warner etc

    but for me if Patch is on say $500k pa i would not mind elevating CC to play more Snrs ahead of him in 2025

    Parker and Patch moved on would be approx $1.3m to use and we all know we desperately need a key back as a trade most likely with Rampe maybe his last year in 2025
    Great to see you back Auntie, agree with you the only problem I reckon is no one would have any interest in Adam’s. I reckon also we need to look at our forward setup and/or or atleast replacing McLean amd Amarty

    Comment

    • Dow
      Regular in the Side
      • Sep 2022
      • 628

      Originally posted by lwjoyner
      re comments from C Twomey swans looking at moving up board. What is wrtong with my earlier suggestion like nths 2 for parks and picks 18 and 19 before comp picks and with us geting 22 from north. therfore we have 2 22 56 shoudl get some talent at least with first 2
      I like it, it’s just that Nortths would be crazy to pick swap etc up to pick 2 when there is absolutely no need and they can just flip us a 3/4 rounder. Francis is getting a new contract according to Cal Towmey and Ladhams has one more year to run, Wicks I don’t know and the rest very likely to be delisted

      Comment

      • dejavoodoo44
        Veterans List
        • Apr 2015
        • 8021

        Originally posted by liz

        There's something seriously wrong with the formula if players of that ilk are deemed worthy of the top tier of compensation.

        I suspect the problem is that the AFL uses current average (whether that's mean or median) wages to plug into their formula, while the contracts that free agents are being offered at the moment factors in the imminent major increase in the cap. But it would be a pretty easy problem to solve if the AFL were interested in doing so.
        Yes, it's quite possibly an accounting error that they haven't bothered to fix. But aside from that, I'm still not sure what the logic behind compensation picks actually is?

        Looking at Josh Battle, he was taken at pick 39 in 2016 and St Kilda are now getting pick 8, after he played around 120 games for them. Taken before him in that draft, were a couple of guys who didn't play any games and half a dozen who were delisted after playing less than twenty. There's a few others who were working out quite well, but have retired through chronic injuries. But of course, there's absolutely no suggestion that clubs should be compensated for draft picks that didn't work out. Whereas, they get compensation for picks that worked out pretty well, until a player decides to leave. Which seems a bit odd?

        There's been a fair amount of talk, about how it might actually be some sort of equalisation measure or that it's a way of protecting less powerful clubs from more cashed up and powerful clubs. Which could quite easily be the case, but I'm not really sure if that makes much sense either? That is, if powerful clubs lure away players before they reach free agency, then they have to give up their own draft picks or players in trades. Whereas, if they wait until free agency, they don't have to give up anything of their own. While that may encourage the more affluent club to wait a year or two, before chasing a desired player, in the long run it actually seems to act more as an incentive to lure players away.

        Comment

        • Ludwig
          Veterans List
          • Apr 2007
          • 9351

          The compo pick is a reasonable form or equalization, which often works out well, but not always.

          In the case of Josh Battle, we have what seems like a trade value of around pick 20, but gives a team like STK a chance to rebuild its midfield.

          In the case of Buddy Franklin, Hawthorn got shafted with pick 19 compo, but they were already such a great team, they needed to be cut down a bit. They still went on t win 2 more premierships with Buddy.

          The compo pick system hurts teams near the top to the table, like the Swans, who see their current draft hand devalued with picks inserted higher in the draft. That's why the Swans need can't let a player like Chad Warner get to free agency, because we would only get a late band 1 pick (assuming we stay near the top of the table).

          All this makes list management all that more nuanced and difficult.

          We have to sacrifice some mature depth to keep refreshing the list and create salary cap space to help retain stars in their prime.

          With Caleb Mitchell winning our best VFL player award, we can add him, along with Sheldrick and Cleary, to our list of young that need more playing time, in a team where spots are hard to find. Another reason to try to unload Adams and Wicks, and why Parker had to go, as much as everyone loves what he's done for the Swans over the years.

          Sorry for the typos, but editing my posts are difficult for me now that the preview and original text are not live on at the same time.

          Comment

          • Meg
            Go Swannies!
            Site Admin
            • Aug 2011
            • 4828

            Originally posted by Ludwig

            Sorry for the typos, but editing my posts are difficult for me now that the preview and original text are not live on at the same time.
            Always pleased to read your thoughts Ludwig, we don’t care about typos.

            My mother had macular degeneration so I understand your struggles.

            Comment

            • Merdo5555
              Warming the Bench
              • Apr 2017
              • 258

              Originally posted by liz

              There's something seriously wrong with the formula if players of that ilk are deemed worthy of the top tier of compensation.

              I suspect the problem is that the AFL uses current average (whether that's mean or median) wages to plug into their formula, while the contracts that free agents are being offered at the moment factors in the imminent major increase in the cap. But it would be a pretty easy problem to solve if the AFL were interested in doing so.
              I suspect the magic formula has more do with give a boost to the teams the AFL thinks needs it.

              Comment

              • Auntie.Gerald
                Veterans List
                • Oct 2009
                • 6443

                Just catching up everyone

                had.a massive couple months at work doing my work and covered another key persons role………won’t be doing that again !!!!

                ok so finally back to chatting footy and no doubt I have missed a lot of comments last couple of months.

                For me……I’m comfortable our team and squad is in good shape.

                we were hard to beat all year except a few games which is an amazing season.

                There was also incredibly tough decisions made through out 2024 with key players like Luke and Patch and even Mills missing the GF.

                i do sense that some of new players in the last draft will feature in 2025 ie Caiden, Indhi, Patrick and maybe young Tom will all contribute. Will be interesting to witness their development and how much they impact the Snr team.

                we had Brodie, Patch and JJ feature heavily in 2024.

                so on that basis a successful recruitment period was end of 2023, which was icing on the cake to enable our team to be very competitive.

                There is no doubt with Luke leaving that will enable dollars to feed back in to the forward contracts of McDonald, Errol, Hayward etc etc

                do we need to go again with a trade of significance and or trade out?

                key defender ?

                trade out Patch?

                trade in another mid 20s player in contested work or does the midfield emergence of Heeney and Mills now have that covered ?

                im generally happy enough with our forward lines but u could argue another strike tall that can kick goals never goes astray ?
                "be tough, only when it gets tough"

                Comment

                • MattW
                  Veterans List
                  • May 2011
                  • 4101

                  Vickery, Arnold and Magor delisted: https://www.instagram.com/p/DAw3j3jJ...RscnpnOTRndw==.

                  Comment

                  • dejavoodoo44
                    Veterans List
                    • Apr 2015
                    • 8021

                    Originally posted by MattW
                    Vickery, Arnold and Magor delisted: https://www.instagram.com/p/DAw3j3jJ...RscnpnOTRndw==.
                    Not overly surprising. Arnold perhaps a bit unlucky, as he looked pretty good last season, before spending much of this year injured.

                    With Vickery and Magor going, will still haven’t found the successor to Harry Cunningham, who's done a quite effective job of being the successor to Nick Smith. Just quietly, I wouldn't mind giving Wicks a crack. I suspect he'd relish the role of driving an opposition forward bat@@@@ crazy. He's quick, agile and likes to tackle. And I think he may have done the occasional tagging role in the NEAFL, when he first started out. Although, the main drawback would be he might give away a few silly free kicks in a costly position. But still, the competitive nature of the battles would probably be attention grabbing.

                    Comment

                    • crackedactor 01
                      Regular in the Side
                      • Jun 2020
                      • 646

                      Originally posted by MattW
                      Vickery, Arnold and Magor delisted: https://www.instagram.com/p/DAw3j3jJ...RscnpnOTRndw==.
                      I was a bit surprised with Arnold, but his leg injury was severe form what I heard.

                      Comment

                      • mcs
                        Travelling Swannie!!
                        • Jul 2007
                        • 8039

                        I was also a bit surprised about Arnold as well. Thought it might be Kostanty instead. But I had also heard the injury was pretty bad, so suspect they've made a call that he is high risk going forward injury wise.
                        "You get the feeling that like Monty Python's Black Knight, the Swans would regard amputation as merely a flesh wound."

                        Comment

                        • Thunder Shaker
                          Aut vincere aut mori
                          • Apr 2004
                          • 4011

                          Originally posted by Ludwig
                          The compo pick system hurts teams near the top to the table, like the Swans, who see their current draft hand devalued with picks inserted higher in the draft. That's why the Swans need can't let a player like Chad Warner get to free agency, because we would only get a late band 1 pick (assuming we stay near the top of the table).
                          I have long been critical of compensation picks for free agency, and not just for the reasons you stated.

                          Free agency creates draft picks out of nothing, which cause all later picks to slide down. This hurts all 16 clubs not involved in the deal, not just top clubs. This is going to be more problematic next year when the draft value for picks is going to be reduced significantly.

                          A particular point of contention for me are the end-of-round compensation picks. They are useless for top and bottom clubs because they could be the same picks as picks in the previous round (top club) or next round (bottom club).

                          Free agency needs an overhaul, but nothing will change as long as Victorian clubs are the main beneficiaries of free first-round picks, even accounting for the majority of clubs being based in Victoria. It's supposed to be a national competition.

                          Some changes that should be made:
                          * Get rid of the end-of-round compensation picks. Replace them with a pick half way between the corresponding picks. (Example: team with pick 4 would have their end-of-round pick inserted at pick 14 - ten places later, subject to adjustments.)
                          * Prohibit contract shenanigans such as front-ending and back-ending to inflate the value of the compensation picks.

                          Though if I had my way, I would make more fundamental changes by making the free agent go through the draft. (Someone else suggested something like this first, I forget who, but I have embellished this with some details):
                          * Free agent goes to the draft.
                          * If the free agent is bid on at the draft, the destination club can match the bid with a 20% discount. The club on the draft clock can then draft again. The original player's club receives the next pick in the draft as a compensation pick. The original player's club cannot pick the free agent. If multiple free agents are bid on at the same pick, the compensation picks will be in the same order as the bids.
                          * If the free agent is still in the draft at the end of the third round, they leave the draft and can be signed as a player without draft paperwork. No compensation picks are given to the original club.
                          * If the destination club declines to match the bid, the club bidding for the free agent gets the player and the original club has the next bid.

                          Advantages:
                          * No need for a complex formula for compensation picks.
                          * The club receiving the free agent pays for the compensation pick instead of 16 other clubs.
                          * No restriction on contract terms are needed.
                          * Imposes a natural limit on the number of free agents that a club can gain in a single season. With the current system, it's possible that one club can abuse the free agency rules and recruit several players in one year, as North Melbourne did by abusing the 10-year rule in the 1970s.
                          "Unbelievable!" -- Nick Davis leaves his mark on the 2005 semi final

                          Comment

                          • UUaswan
                            Warming the Bench
                            • Sep 2024
                            • 118

                            Need to adopt NBA style trade

                            Length of contract, your current club can offer you Max 5yrs, another club only 4yrs

                            Salary maxes are dependent on years service, I.e. 7yrs plus can get a 10% of the salary cap, 4yr player only 6% etc

                            They brings everyone into line and gives the current club max leverage.

                            Current system is a joke, Shai Bolton after 3 flags and 4yrs left on a deal wants to go home as with all the other Richmonds flag players

                            Comment

                            • imuninformedtwo
                              Pushing for Selection
                              • Aug 2024
                              • 97

                              Originally posted by mcs
                              I was also a bit surprised about Arnold as well. Thought it might be Kostanty instead. But I had also heard the injury was pretty bad, so suspect they've made a call that he is high risk going forward injury wise.
                              I think with Kostanty, we’re probably hanging on in case we can snare a (late) pick for him.

                              Comment

                              • Nico
                                Veterans List
                                • Jan 2003
                                • 11249

                                Originally posted by imuninformedtwo

                                I think with Kostanty, we’re probably hanging on in case we can snare a (late) pick for him.
                                I suspect there are a few others that clubs have shown an interest in, so we are waiting for this week for any possible trades. Just because a player hasn't been delisted now, it doesn't mean they won't be.
                                http://www.nostalgiamusic.co.uk/secu...res/srh806.jpg

                                Comment

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