Schnieder and Dempster off to Moorabbin

[connolly]

Softest players up for trade....?? .....But no McVeigh...
He is, without doubt, the softest player on our list..

Don't agree. Macca has very weak upper body strength but he runs straight at the ball. He is very weak in the tackle. Hoever I will never forgive Dempster for his aneamic performance against Embers in the 06 GF. Watching Dempster play on Embers ( a very soft player) is a bit like watching tantric sex. No contact. But worst of all in the last quarter of the GF when Embers needed to be planted in the MCG for summer blooming, Derpster just fell off him. Meanwhile a hack called Chick did to Teddy R, who was on fire - what has to be done in GF's. He put him to sleep with a fierce marginally late tackle. Dempster's inadequate performance on Embley, particularly in the last quarter, was a major factor in our defeat. If a player won't do the tough things in close GF's then he won't do them ever. And spare me the stuff about smooth kicking skills and that he is an outside player. Footy is also a physical contest. Trade him. Leigh Fisher is the replacement for Crouchy. Bevo stays for all the reasons that Dempster goes. Also of the young players who played in 05 GF - Bevo, Dempster and Schneider, the last two have gone backwards. In tough games Dempster has been found wanting, Schneider is about 20% off his 05 form and Bevo is getting back to somewhere around 05.

[connolly]

Gee you dislike Brennan as much as I dislike Bevan. You have been into him since someone said he was in the best players in the 2's for the first time. Fair dinkum after Bevan's appalling EF he should be dispatched overseas, anywhere but on a footy field. Did you actually see that game.

I take it then that on the basis of Dempster's effort in the GF when he played on the Norm Smith medallist he should be traded. Bevan played in a backline that was under enormous pressure as a quicker midfield carved us up. B2 was pretty ordinary in that game as well. Leo made clangers. However Bevo has never, how shall we say this, been fragile in big games. He played on and kept some very good players quiet like Brennan and Pettifer Tigers. He was given the job against Bucks which indicates that the coaches trust him to apply pressure in big games. His season in 07 was OK

[Mr_Juicy]

This is getting incredibly cyclical.

Some points to note:

1) I don't think anyone is advocating trading Schneider, Dempster, Buchanan or Bolton unless the deal is a fair one, and preferably at least slightly in our favour

2) I don't think any of those 4 players fit under the "don't trade under any circumstances" category like Goodes, Malceski or Hall would, therefore there must be SOME price at which we would be prepared to trade them

3) None of the rumours concerning St Kilda have been substantiated yet

So what ARE we arguing about? There have been no deals done yet.

just people stroking their epenises

[ernie koala]

Don't agree. Macca has very weak upper body strength but he runs straight at the ball. He is very weak in the tackle.

He runs straight at the ball only when there is no contest. He continually ducks his head, and never backs up for a mark when there is a chance of a collision. He should be first to go.

[SimonH]

Hoever I will never forgive Dempster for his aneamic performance against Embers in the 06 GF. Watching Dempster play on Embers ( a very soft player) is a bit like watching tantric sex. No contact. But worst of all in the last quarter of the GF when Embers needed to be planted in the MCG for summer blooming, Derpster just fell off him. Meanwhile a hack called Chick did to Teddy R, who was on fire - what has to be done in GF's. He put him to sleep with a fierce marginally late tackle. Dempster's inadequate performance on Embley, particularly in the last quarter, was a major factor in our defeat. If a player won't do the tough things in close GF's then he won't do them ever. And spare me the stuff about smooth kicking skills and that he is an outside player. Footy is also a physical contest. Trade him. Leigh Fisher is the replacement for Crouchy. Bevo stays for all the reasons that Dempster goes. Also of the young players who played in 05 GF - Bevo, Dempster and Schneider, the last two have gone backwards. In tough games Dempster has been found wanting

You've missed the point.

• Leaving aside the fact that I was there at the 2006 GF and failed to notice a single instance of Dempster failing to play close and tough when the game was on the line. (I did notice an egregious clanger from Kennelly, though-- wonder if you can 'never forgive him' for that?)
• Leaving aside the lack of any other evidence cited for your claim that he 'has been found wanting in tough games' (unsurprisingly, as the evidence is overwhelmingly to the contrary).
• Leaving aside the hi-larious implication in the above claim, that the 2005 GF wasn't a tough game (in that overanalysed match, I have never heard anyone claim that Dempster was 'wanting', 'soft', 'not doing the team things' or anything else similar).

If everything you say is true and he really should be traded: why the hell wouldn't you trade him for genuine market value, rather than giving him away for nothing?

[connolly]

He runs straight at the ball only when there is no contest. He continually ducks his head, and never backs up for a mark when there is a chance of a collision. He should be first to go.

He must improve noticably in 08 particularly tackling. Don't think we are going to off load him just yet given the amount of work and time put into him. If Scnieder goes he will probably play more in the forward line where he can be dangerous. The day of the one dimensional small forward are over. Macca kicks them ok and can play in the midfield. His versatility gives it to him over Schnieder. As for Dempster there is really no place for a soft defender who rarely if ever takes a pack mark despite his height with our mob.

[Wazza]

Dempster is a good player but why not trade him now when he is seen as a good young player and still carries the "premiership player tag? With our recruiting its hard to see where Dempster would play so he may only have limited oppourtunities next season. So why not try to gain something in return via a trade?

On Brennan IMHO he showed a bit when played in defence but again with our recruiting its hard to see a perm posi for him. Maybe with a full pre season he could play FWD with stints through the midfield.

I would hate to see Buchanan leave, Im not too fussed on Schneider as his lack of endurance does limit his versatility - as others have mentioned. It will be interesting to see if J Bolton is traded and the value other clubs place on him.

The suprise for me is McVeigh, Im not a fan and cant really see any further development in his game but probably throwing Bolton, Buchanan and Schneider out there may have extended his stay?


Cheers

waz

[Matty10]

Not a big fan of Dempster - tends to panic when he gets the ball - doesn't look up and just kicks blindly far too often

[ernie koala]

Dempster is a good player but why not trade him now when he is seen as a good young player and still carries the "premiership player tag? With our recruiting its hard to see where Dempster would play so he may only have limited oppourtunities next season. So why not try to gain something in return via a trade?

On Brennan IMHO he showed a bit when played in defence but again with our recruiting its hard to see a perm posi for him. Maybe with a full pre season he could play FWD with stints through the midfield.

I would hate to see Buchanan leave, Im not too fussed on Schneider as his lack of endurance does limit his versatility - as others have mentioned. It will be interesting to see if J Bolton is traded and the value other clubs place on him.

The suprise for me is McVeigh, Im not a fan and cant really see any further development in his game but probably throwing Bolton, Buchanan and Schneider out there may have extended his stay?


Cheers

waz

I agree with all the above except "Brennan FWD".....he can't kick staight

[shaun..]

He must improve noticably in 08 particularly tackling. Don't think we are going to off load him just yet given the amount of work and time put into him. If Scnieder goes he will probably play more in the forward line where he can be dangerous. The day of the one dimensional small forward are over. Macca kicks them ok and can play in the midfield. His versatility gives it to him over Schnieder. As for Dempster there is really no place for a soft defender who rarely if ever takes a pack mark despite his height with our mob.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by versatility, because I'm sure Schneider is more versatile than McVeigh. McVeigh is a forward and probably not alot more than that. He's been given tagging jobs but we've seen how badly they've been executed. McVeigh's optimal position imo is around the half forward mark, with short bursts into the midfield as an attacking option and not a tagger. Schneider can play a number of positions but is probably best suited in the forward line. He can play in bursts in the midfield and when tried in the backline was more than serviceable.

While on Schneider, I dont see how he is continually compared with Buchanan, last time I checked they played different roles to each other? Or is it because they look alike?

[Wazza]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by versatility, because I'm sure Schneider is more versatile than McVeigh. McVeigh is a forward and probably not alot more than that. He's been given tagging jobs but we've seen how badly they've been executed. McVeigh's optimal position imo is around the half forward mark, with short bursts into the midfield as an attacking option and not a tagger. Schneider can play a number of positions but is probably best suited in the forward line. He can play in bursts in the midfield and when tried in the backline was more than serviceable.

Cant really agree with this, although not a fan of McVeigh he can play a number of roles and has a larger aerobic capacity than Schneider. The lack of aerobic capacity is what limits the roles Schneider can perform and is probably the reason he doesnt perform consistenly for 4 qtrs (or whatever game time he has). He plays like Davo - in bursts but doesnt have the finishing skills to really have an impact. - Only my observations and opinion

Cheers

Waz

[NMWBloods]

I think that says more about the brain capacity of Saints fans than anything else.

Hmmm... a few others have thought the same thing...

[connolly]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by versatility, because I'm sure Schneider is more versatile than McVeigh. McVeigh is a forward and probably not alot more than that. He's been given tagging jobs but we've seen how badly they've been executed. McVeigh's optimal position imo is around the half forward mark, with short bursts into the midfield as an attacking option and not a tagger. Schneider can play a number of positions but is probably best suited in the forward line. He can play in bursts in the midfield and when tried in the backline was more than serviceable.

While on Schneider, I dont see how he is continually compared with Buchanan, last time I checked they played different roles to each other? Or is it because they look alike?

The player that Schneider duplicates on the forward line is Davo. In terms of a small crumbing forward who can turn a game Davo is a mile in front. Schneider can play as a small defender but we have plenty of those Bevo, Crouch and Benny. He still hasn't developed his fitness to run with any midfielder as a defensive midfielder which speaks volumes for his lack of development. He simply cannot sustain his pace through a game in the midfield. His lack of athleticism tells against him which is staggering since he is supposed to be a professional athlete. Schneider is the Peter Pan of the club. The kid from the bush who got under the radar of the opposition in his first year simply hasn't grown up (athletically) If the trade doesn't come off hopefully he will get in the gym, seriously run and will we see something like a mature body emerge out of the race next year. At the moment he looks (physically) like he should be playing in the C Grade Amateur comp..

[sWAns63]

No,Schneider + pick#11 to saints..in return they give us Picks # 9 and 28.

That works for me seems like the best scenario I've seen for Schneider for dealing with the Saints if they won't take that..................stuff em! or we can keep him and he can kick em out of the finals again next year

[connolly]

You've missed the point.

• Leaving aside the fact that I was there at the 2006 GF and failed to notice a single instance of Dempster failing to play close and tough when the game was on the line. (I did notice an egregious clanger from Kennelly, though-- wonder if you can 'never forgive him' for that?)
• Leaving aside the lack of any other evidence cited for your claim that he 'has been found wanting in tough games' (unsurprisingly, as the evidence is overwhelmingly to the contrary).
• Leaving aside the hi-larious implication in the above claim, that the 2005 GF wasn't a tough game (in that overanalysed match, I have never heard anyone claim that Dempster was 'wanting', 'soft', 'not doing the team things' or anything else similar).

If everything you say is true and he really should be traded: why the hell wouldn't you trade him for genuine market value, rather than giving him away for nothing?

Well you might have noticed his opponent in the 06 GF was Embley who killed him. I haven't got the DVD handy just now but there is an incident on the old Members wing where Dempster just stopped and failed to attack the ball. If you really want the details the illegals supporters on Big Footy will provide it free of charge.
Dempsters role in the 06 GF was of greater importance to the side than in 05. He was a run with player with a very good player Embley. If someone wins a Norm Smith don't you think that might suggest that their opponent has been taken to the cleaners? Particularly one who also failed to run off Embley, who is also a very poor defender. The WC exploited Dempsters lack of physical pressure in the GF. Check out the number of unpressured possies Embley picked up, particularly in the last quarter. As i said its a GF for FFS and Dempster didn't put Embers on his arse. Teddy, who was having a real impact, was. No argument there because thats what happens in GF's. Except Dempster who was being towelled up didn't even try. Embers kicked three goals in a low scoring GF. AND WAS THE DIFFERENCE. Personally I think Roosey has been very generous by giving him a chance to redeem himself this year. Instead another lack lustre nothing year from a defender who is not a strong tackler, a tall who doesn't take a pack mark and has terrible peripheral vision. He is a one trick pony - lovely kick. Well sorry at the top level you have to do a lot more. Try trading Dempster to the Eagles. He's not rated by them because of his abysmal performance in the GF