2010 Draft/Trade Resource & Discussion

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  • liz
    Veteran
    Site Admin
    • Jan 2003
    • 16770

    Originally posted by rojo
    Looking in from the outside I get this impression too. Players are traded in with a guarantee to be in the 22, Kennedy, Mummy and McGlynn for example and looking at the Swans top 10 in the best and fairest it was with justification in their cases. However it must be with a sinking heart for those who have similar skills but have not yet been given a decent tryout in the firsts. Just as Currie had to get used to the trade ins last year, with Everitt coming in there is certainly no place for Ed and Campbell Heath, and perhaps even Sam Reid, and way down the order Chris McKaigh must be wondering about their chances of a game next year and beyond, because the traded in ones are definitely there to stay.

    At the end of next year a few more of the 'olds' might retire and free up a couple of spaces but for those labouring away in the less than ideal ressies comp. for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th years it must be quite demoralising. In TDL, no place for Ves. In Jetta, no spot for O'Dwyer, all about the same ages but TDL and Jetta had had the advantage of playing in a better reserves comp. and also must have been seen as having more to offer the Swans than those already on the list. I suppose that is the way it all works, some do get the breaks and some don't but I feel for those guys who don't. Good luck to Ves and also to Ed, Currie, and OD either still on the list next year or elsewhere.
    I think the evidence (Exhibit A: Hannebery. Exhibit B: Bird. Exhibit C: Jetta) indicates that the club has been prepared to give even very new recruits a chance to play early senior footy if they've proved themselves capable. Players like Jack, Grundy, Smith, Malceski took a little longer but did the hard yards, proved themselves worthy and establshed themselves firmly in the senior team at equivalent, or younger, ages than all the imports. If you're good enough and fit enough you get your chance.

    I am repeating myself from earlier posts, but I think the perception of some that Vez was hard done by in the opportunities he got is off the mark. He debuted in his first year almost as soon as he'd got over a groin injury that hampered him for the first half of his rookie year, despite not really having the necessary endurance. He was clearly in Roos's senior team plans at the start of his second year before that got derailed by a bad finger injury. In the summary of the Vez interview that Ugg posted, Vez states he came back under-done from that finger injury? Why? Surely 10 weeks unable to handle a footy but with most of his body unhampered should have been a fantastic opportunity to slog it out on the track to build the start of the necessary endurance base. When he actually returned to the reserves team that year, he looked less fit than he had the previous year. Despite that, he was still granted some senior games late in the season.

    He was possibly a little stiff to get dropped after his one senior game in 2010, which was a more than competent performance. But his reserves form in the latter half of the year was pretty mediocre in the main. Further opportunities for youngsters did open up (Meredith, Rohan, TDL all played games) but all got picked because they were doing more in the reserves than Vez was.

    This isn't an anti-Vez rant. I really liked what I saw and I am sad he's moved on. But to say he (or any other youngster) who has deserved it has not got a fair go is stretching things a long way. (If anyone was a little stiff not to get a game or two last year, my opinion is that it was Johnston. Sadly for him, he managed to time his runs of good games when the senior team was going well, and put in a couple of shockers just around the time an opportunity did open up, before getting an injury late in the year that scuppered any remaining chance he might have had.)

    Comment

    • liz
      Veteran
      Site Admin
      • Jan 2003
      • 16770

      Originally posted by Plugger46
      He did use the word 'potential'. Gee whiz, he hasn't said he'll be a superstar of the competition.

      Brabazon had four years, Faulks had two so I doubt it. Teeth gnashing is a bit over the top I would have thought.
      Does the club have the potential to be bitten in the backside by their decision to choose Reid over Stratton at last year's draft? (He was taken the pick after Reid) and played around 19-20 games and got a RS nomination after all.)

      List management is all about managing a scarce resource (list spots) and making very tough calls on under-developed youngsters. No club gets it right all the time. If they'd decided to hang onto Faulks for one more year, what if that had cost Grundy his spot on the list? (Roos has said it was very touch and go there for a while whether they were going to persist with Grundy. As it is he has blossomed into a highly competent key defender.)

      I just don't see the point in dwelling on the what-ifs or maybes, particularly about a player who hasn't even played a single game of AFL.

      Comment

      • cookie
        On the Rookie List
        • Oct 2010
        • 50

        Totally agree Liz - completely spot on.

        Comment

        • Plugger46
          Senior Player
          • Apr 2003
          • 3674

          Originally posted by liz
          Does the club have the potential to be bitten in the backside by their decision to choose Reid over Stratton at last year's draft? (He was taken the pick after Reid) and played around 19-20 games and got a RS nomination after all.)

          List management is all about managing a scarce resource (list spots) and making very tough calls on under-developed youngsters. No club gets it right all the time. If they'd decided to hang onto Faulks for one more year, what if that had cost Grundy his spot on the list? (Roos has said it was very touch and go there for a while whether they were going to persist with Grundy. As it is he has blossomed into a highly competent key defender.)

          I just don't see the point in dwelling on the what-ifs or maybes, particularly about a player who hasn't even played a single game of AFL.
          On the first point, of course not and I don't see the relevance.

          Impossible to get it right every time, any reasonable person knows that. Robbo simply said that the club may have got this one wrong. Odds are that he'll struggle like a lot of players taken late in the draft and the club will be proven to be correct but I think it's reasonable to ponder whether we should've kept him or not.
          Bloods

          "Lockett is the best of all time" - Robert Harvey, Darrel Baldock, Nathan Burke, Kevin Bartlett, Bob Skilton

          Comment

          • bennyfabulous
            Warming the Bench
            • Apr 2009
            • 351

            Like others have implied I think Vez just didnt want it bad enough. If your not getting picked when you think you should be, you work your butt off to get a go. 10 weeks with a finger injury should have been ample time to work his butt off and get really fit as others have said (there may have been extenuating circumstances but we dont know).

            From afar it seems to me that Vez wasnt prepared to do the hard yards and hence he's gone. No big loss really if you think about it.

            Good luck to him though.
            Last edited by bennyfabulous; 7 October 2010, 09:42 PM.

            Comment

            • nomae
              Regular in the Side
              • May 2006
              • 523

              I remember late in the season Roos roasted some of the young blokes in the reserves, to the tune of something like

              "They're blaming homesickness for their poor performances but I aint buying it."

              In hindsight, writing was on the wall for Vez then and there.

              (in subsequent search for said quote I found the story ABC Sport - Roos lambasts Swans rookies)

              Comment

              • ugg
                Can you feel it?
                Site Admin
                • Jan 2003
                • 15970

                So Sherman doesn't even want to speak to us (under instruction from the Bulldogs). Why bother chasing him any more?

                All Hale Hawks' big trade coup | Herald Sun
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                Comment

                • Turner
                  On the Rookie List
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 58

                  Originally posted by ugg
                  So Sherman doesn't even want to speak to us (under instruction from the Bulldogs). Why bother chasing him any more?

                  All Hale Hawks' big trade coup | Herald Sun
                  @@@@ him off. we need to focus by using on a kid or luring someone else. The bloke is full of himself.
                  My Man Mumford!

                  Comment

                  • Damien
                    Living in 2005
                    • Jan 2003
                    • 3713

                    Know a lot of people who know him (Sherman) well (He is a fellow Tasmanian) and all I can say is the reaction has generally been "Thought you guys had a no dickheads policy"......

                    Comment

                    • ShockOfHair
                      One Man Out
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 3668

                      Well-remembered, Nomae I'd forgotten all about that. I think we figured at the time it was aimed at Vez and to some degree Johnston.

                      I'm pretty relaxed about players we've already delisted or traded. Most are cut for a good reason. I can't think of anyone we've offloaded (for footy reasons) in the last few years who has left us worse off. Even Jolly's exit had mostly upside.

                      Our footy department has a good a record as any. Look at the quality of our trades and of our list over the past few years and compare with some of the dumb moves made by others, eg, Hawthorn, giving up Zac Dawson, Joey, Gopher, to take a random example.
                      The man who laughs has not yet heard the terrible news

                      Comment

                      • DeadlyAkkuret
                        Veterans List
                        • Oct 2006
                        • 4547

                        Originally posted by Turner
                        @@@@ him off. we need to focus by using on a kid or luring someone else. The bloke is full of himself.
                        My thoughts exactly, seems like a wanker who needs to bathe in media attention to stroke his inflated ego. He's had two good seasons and you'd think he was Joel Selwood, I'd be mad if we lost our first pick for that prima donna.

                        Comment

                        • Auntie.Gerald
                          Veterans List
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 6478

                          Sherman could be a great decoy............but unlikely......we need depth in the midfield and HF rotation and experience, speed and 23ish will help !! for the next few yrs as ROK and Jude are retiring sooner rather then later
                          "be tough, only when it gets tough"

                          Comment

                          • top40
                            Regular in the Side
                            • May 2007
                            • 933

                            Originally posted by Primmy
                            I am going to say something shocking here - hush, don't repeat it - but I don't actually rate browlow votes.......yes I know,massively controversial, but how can I be pleased with the way umps think! I am not for 22 games throughout the season, why would I be impressed with their version of how wonderful the midfield play?

                            .
                            I am also not generally a fan of the Brownlow as a measure of a quality player. In this case however, Sherman is a midfielder. They normally yield more votes than key position "end" players. 6 votes in 114 games is not impressive. Are some of us overrating Sherman in the context of the grass being greener on the other side?

                            Comment

                            • Bas
                              Veterans List
                              • Jan 2003
                              • 4457

                              Said on 6am Sunrise news, that sherman would stay in Brisbane if he couldn't get to the dogs. Definately no to Sydney move.

                              I hope the Club doesn't draft him against his wishes. Another alternative, we draft him, if it doesn't work out, we trade him to a Melbourne Club next year for a first/second round pick.

                              He still has two years on his contract. But then why would you bother. I still remember the Scott Russell fiasco.

                              Last edited by Bas; 8 October 2010, 07:53 AM.
                              In memory of my little Staffy - Dicey, 17.06.2005 to 1.12.2011- I'll miss you mate.

                              Comment

                              • giant
                                Veterans List
                                • Mar 2005
                                • 4731

                                Originally posted by Bas
                                Said on 6am Sunrise news, that sherman would stay in Brisbane if he couldn't get to the dogs. Definately no to Sydney move.

                                I hope the Club doesn't draft him against his wishes. Another alternative, we draft him, if it doesn't work out, we trade him to a Melbourne Club next year for a first/second round pick.

                                He still has two years on his contract. But then why would you bother. I still remember the Scott Russell fiasco.
                                Well, in the absence of free agency, it's not really totally the player's choice about where he goes. He wouldn't be the first player sent to Siberia against his wishes.

                                That said, if the appeal of Sydney vs Dogs on more $ for a longer term isn't clear to the fella, then I reckon it's time to move on.

                                It's one of the great mysteries of trade week that the only players that get to plunder the riches of trade week are over-hyped under-achieving wallies like Sherman, Brennan, Tambling, Walker etc. Not a consistent performer among the bunch of them but they still walk away with the prize.

                                Comment

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