Trade target discussion (merged thread)

[Meg]

[QUOTE=mcsquirta;683879]Anyone heard anything about Mike Pyke? My wife says she's heard rumours about a possible move to Adelaide & the only recent thing I can find is:

http://www.sen.com.au/news/09-15/trade-sentral-freeman-schoenmakers-and-pyke

Doesn't sound like much to it...
Pykey and I think Birdy (maybe others) are contracted till 2016?/QUOTE]

I think your wife must read Big Footy which I think is where the 'Mike Pyke to the Crows' rumour started. I think there is zero chance of this happening. Firstly, as you say, I think he is contracted to end next season. Secondly, should the Swans try to offload him, I suspect Pyke would simply retire. Everything I've read about Mike and his wife suggests they have established a happy life and careers (alternative career in Mike's case) in Sydney. Thirdly, as we are very much aware, Mike has fitness problems as a result of his troublesome knee so I can't see another club taking him on.

I suspect the rumour has started as a result of confusion with West Coast assistant coach Don Pyke who is said to be a favourite for the vacant position of head coach of the Crows (as Scott Camporeale has confirmed he is not applying for the job on a permanent basis).

[liz]

[QUOTE=Meg;683895]

Anyone heard anything about Mike Pyke? My wife says she's heard rumours about a possible move to Adelaide & the only recent thing I can find is:

http://www.sen.com.au/news/09-15/trade-sentral-freeman-schoenmakers-and-pyke

Doesn't sound like much to it...
Pykey and I think Birdy (maybe others) are contracted till 2016?/QUOTE]

I think your wife must read Big Footy which I think is where the 'Mike Pyke to the Crows' rumour started. I think there is zero chance of this happening. Firstly, as you say, I think he is contracted to end next season. Secondly, should the Swans try to offload him, I suspect Pyke would simply retire. Everything I've read about Mike and his wife suggests they have established a happy life and careers (alternative career in Mike's case) in Sydney. Thirdly, as we are very much aware, Mike has fitness problems as a result of his troublesome knee so I can't see another club taking him on.

I suspect the rumour has started as a result of confusion with West Coast assistant coach Don Pyke who is said to be a favourite for the vacant position of head coach of the Crows (as Scott Camporeale has confirmed he is not applying for the job on a permanent basis).

Yep, Mike's second career is in finance. There is close to no financial services industry in Adelaide. Not compared to Sydney (or Melbourne).

[6'2, 220, 4.53]

[QUOTE=liz;683897]

Yep, Mike's second career is in finance. There is close to no financial services industry in Adelaide. Not compared to Sydney (or Melbourne).

Pyke would have to agree to the trade as well. I don't think a player could be traded without his consent.

[tasswan]

I think the information has been confused as they are talking about Don Pyke returning to Adelaide not Mike

[bungwahl]

Anyone else read this crap
No swan song, it?s time for John Longmire to go - No swan song, it?s time for John Longmire to go | The Roar

I actually thought that was a really interesting article. The headline is basically just click bait to get people to read it, but the analysis within the article is quite interesting. The author does say he doesn't actually think the Swans should axe Longmire, but he raises some good points about game plan, tactics, etc. There is no way Longmire will get the chop, but I don't think we should shy away from discussing the current coaching crop and whether we could benefit from some new ideas.

[YvonneH]

Michael Talia pretty sure to leave the Dogs. What are our chances?
Liam Pickering is his manager. Is that good or bad for us (after the Buddy deal)?

[AnnieH]

Anyone else read this crap
No swan song, it?s time for John Longmire to go - No swan song, it?s time for John Longmire to go | The Roar

But here?s the thing ? Sydney are broken. This is a side that has performed below expectation for three seasons in a row, regardless of how high they?ve actually finished. We?re not judging them against the likes of Melbourne, St Kilda or Collingwood here.

I stopped reading here.
WTF?

[bungwahl]

I stopped reading here.
WTF?

It's a bit of hyperbole but not completely wrong. In 2013 we were crippled by injuries, 2014 we had the best list in the comp and should have won the flag, then this year we went backwards in terms of scoring and game plan.

[Bloods05]

I actually thought that was a really interesting article. The headline is basically just click bait to get people to read it, but the analysis within the article is quite interesting. The author does say he doesn't actually think the Swans should axe Longmire, but he raises some good points about game plan, tactics, etc. There is no way Longmire will get the chop, but I don't think we should shy away from discussing the current coaching crop and whether we could benefit from some new ideas.

Yes it was quite an interesting article, but with this kind of football journalism there is always the suspicion that the writer is being deliberately provocative to get a reaction. Personally I don't think the negativity is justified.

The Swans have had a difficult time since the 2012 premiership. There was the shocking run of injuries in 2013, then the Tippett fiasco (not of our making), then the AFL's savage and vindictive reaction to the recruitment of Buddy, then the inexplicable 2014 GF disaster after our best-ever home-and-away season, then the disgraceful trade ban, then the racist abuse of Adam Goodes, then Buddy's mental illness and the rash of injuries to key players at the wrong end of the season. Add to that the AFL-inspired wave of opprobrium heaped on the club by the likes of Dermott Brereton and Eddie McGuire and their echo chamber in football forums and social media, and the AFL's continuing refusal to dispel the impression that the Swans had acted unethically in their use of CoLA. Against that background, it is a great credit to the club that we have managed to maintain a level of performance that, while not optimal, has been more than adequate and well above that of all but three or four other clubs.

The only real gripe I have against Horse in all this is his response to the 2014 GF performance, in which I felt he was far too ready to push it aside as an aberration, in the past now, we're moving on, looking to the future, etc., etc., and there was no serious attempt to come to grips with what had happened and the lessons to be drawn from it. Perhaps there was in-house, but as a supporter it felt lacking in honesty and courage. There was very little attempt to apologise to supporters for what was a colossal let-down, and to explain what steps were being taken to ensure it would not happen again.

That aside, however, I find it hard to imagine a more adverse set of circumstances for a footy club over the past few years - maybe Essendon's, but that was almost all of their own making - and it seems reasonable to expect that, as things get back to something like normal, our performances will improve accordingly.

[jono2707]

Michael Talia pretty sure to leave the Dogs. What are our chances?
Liam Pickering is his manager. Is that good or bad for us (after the Buddy deal)?

I was keen until the news of earlier this week.

Now? Wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

[bungwahl]

Yes it was quite an interesting article, but with this kind of football journalism there is always the suspicion that the writer is being deliberately provocative to get a reaction. Personally I don't think the negativity is justified.

The Swans have had a difficult time since the 2012 premiership. There was the shocking run of injuries in 2013, then the Tippett fiasco (not of our making), then the AFL's savage and vindictive reaction to the recruitment of Buddy, then the inexplicable 2014 GF disaster after our best-ever home-and-away season, then the disgraceful trade ban, then the racist abuse of Adam Goodes, then Buddy's mental illness and the rash of injuries to key players at the wrong end of the season. Add to that the AFL-inspired wave of opprobrium heaped on the club by the likes of Dermott Brereton and Eddie McGuire and their echo chamber in football forums and social media, and the AFL's continuing refusal to dispel the impression that the Swans had acted unethically in their use of CoLA. Against that background, it is a great credit to the club that we have managed to maintain a level of performance that, while not optimal, has been more than adequate and well above that of all but three or four other clubs.

The only real gripe I have against Horse in all this is his response to the 2014 GF performance, in which I felt he was far too ready to push it aside as an aberration, in the past now, we're moving on, looking to the future, etc., etc., and there was no serious attempt to come to grips with what had happened and the lessons to be drawn from it. Perhaps there was in-house, but as a supporter it felt lacking in honesty and courage. There was very little attempt to apologise to supporters for what was a colossal let-down, and to explain what steps were being taken to ensure it would not happen again.

That aside, however, I find it hard to imagine a more adverse set of circumstances for a footy club over the past few years - maybe Essendon's, but that was almost all of their own making - and it seems reasonable to expect that, as things get back to something like normal, our performances will improve accordingly.

Absolutely agree! The unjustified trade ban is the primary reason for the Swans looking a little short on depth this year. The lack of care factor from the majority of mainstream Victorian media was deafening. Imagine if Collingwood had randomly been banned from trading...

[RogueSwan]

Anyone else read this crap
No swan song, it?s time for John Longmire to go - No swan song, it?s time for John Longmire to go | The Roar

I think it was a somewhat interesting article but really just click bait and another journo predicting the Swans demise.

I think this was one of Reg's best and was the solid anchor of the backline but the article ....

Heath Grundy is secure in his contract but far from it when the ball is in his hands,

[6'2, 220, 4.53]

Absolutely agree! The unjustified trade ban is the primary reason for the Swans looking a little short on depth this year. The lack of care factor from the majority of mainstream Victorian media was deafening. Imagine if Collingwood had randomly been banned from trading...

We have to be accountable. We signed a 27 year old a 9 year contract. The first year of the contract exceeded expectations, the 2nd year was below expectations. Now there are huge concerns for our investment because there is 7 years to go and a huge amount of salary cap is chewed up.

This deal was totally of the Swans making. Any person who wants to have a go at the Hawks for their player pick ups is delusional. They planned for Buddy to leave at the end of 2013 by developing Gunston and Bruest. They now have the money to thrive because they don't have to outlay a million dollars a year for Buddy while still scoring as effectively.

As a club the Swans have to be accountable for their decisions.

[Bloods05]

We have to be accountable. We signed a 27 year old a 9 year contract. The first year of the contract exceeded expectations, the 2nd year was below expectations. Now there are huge concerns for our investment because there is 7 years to go and a huge amount of salary cap is chewed up.

This deal was totally of the Swans making. Any person who wants to have a go at the Hawks for their player pick ups is delusional. They planned for Buddy to leave at the end of 2013 by developing Gunston and Bruest. They now have the money to thrive because they don't have to outlay a million dollars a year for Buddy while still scoring as effectively.

As a club the Swans have to be accountable for their decisions.

I don't believe anyone here is arguing that the Swans do not need to be accountable. The Buddy deal was risky, of course. It may prove to be disastrous, of course. I am sure the club went into this deal with their eyes open.

But what they did not expect, and had no reason to expect, was the unprincipled and vindictive response from the AFL. The phasing out of CoLA had already been announced, the arrangements were already in place for it to happen, but then suddenly the AFL decided that additional conditions had to be placed on it. At no time have they given a coherent justification for this, and there is ample evidence that it was done out of spite, which is quite beyond belief for a professional organisation of its size and influence.

So accountability is irrelevant to this discussion, at least as far as the club is concerned. If anyone needs to be more accountable, it is the AFL for its failure to account for its treatment of the Swans.

[bungwahl]

We have to be accountable. We signed a 27 year old a 9 year contract. The first year of the contract exceeded expectations, the 2nd year was below expectations. Now there are huge concerns for our investment because there is 7 years to go and a huge amount of salary cap is chewed up.

This deal was totally of the Swans making. Any person who wants to have a go at the Hawks for their player pick ups is delusional. They planned for Buddy to leave at the end of 2013 by developing Gunston and Bruest. They now have the money to thrive because they don't have to outlay a million dollars a year for Buddy while still scoring as effectively.

As a club the Swans have to be accountable for their decisions.

That's true, and I think the club hasn't shied away from accountability. From a financial perspective the Buddy deal has more than paid off already, so it's really just left to see how it pans out on the field.

Yes, we've allocated a chunk of salary cap to Buddy for the next 7 years, but the salary cap will also increase over that period. Obviously the worrying part is the recent mental health issue, but I'd be surprised if Buddy didn't play next season. We'll judge that deal some time in the future.

The biggest issue for our list development is the trade ban. We're not particularly good drafters, but have always recycled players well. Last year we couldn't do that and this year we'll be limited.