2017 trading, drafting, list management

[Nico]

Garry Lyon's analysis is ridiculously superficial and simplistic for someone who is given the profile he has across his various media roles.

The difference with Nankervis is that he was out-of-contract - that actually makes a bit of a difference at the end of a season when he is fielding offers from other clubs (offering greater opportunity), and the other players Lyon says we should have let go instead were under contract. He could have debated the validity of signing / re-signing the likes of Sinclair and Tippett - but to suggest we had a choice of who left once we got to the end of last year and say we chose it to be Nankervis is just completely naive to how list management works.

Personally I think the bagging of Sam Reid is completely unfair also - I'm not sure how anyone can reference his goals/games ratio and use that as evidence that he's under-performed. Friday night was the perfect example - we start poorly and then Reid is sent to defence. I've been critical of Longmire for not having a Plan B - that's actually unfair - his Plan B is to send Sam Reid behind the ball. If he was left to actually function as a forward for any significant amount of time, the criticism would be fair if he wasn't delivering.

Why would you take notice of Lyon. In 2005 he jumped on the ugly football bandwagon in a HUN article. Made some big statements and when challenged admitted that he had not seen a Swans game live or on TV. Did no research then and it seems none once again. Flog of the first order.

[Nico]

Because the media never jump on a coach when his team is going poorly. Who needs that constant speculation every two years. Stability is underrated.



Agreed. Against the Saints the Swans manned up and forced turnovers out of the backline. Do the same against the Dawks and this conversation wouldn't be happening. Also. having Reid drop back in the last quarter would've been a nice option to have...

Very good points Rogue. Although Reid didn't do much while he was on the ground, doesn't mean that would have happened in the 2nd half if he hadn't been concussed. He would have been a very valuable spare man back instead of Mills. Better to point the finger at Hanners for his stupid up and under to Florent two on one, then turnover and Roughy marking on 50, then Hanners standing 4 metres behind the mark.

[bloodspirit]

Because the media never jump on a coach when his team is going poorly. Who needs that constant speculation every two years. Stability is underrated.

+ 1

[Flying South]

As it stands I'm happy to now play out this season for draft picks and reload for 2018

How many games would you like us to lose. Would it make you happy to not sing the club song for the rest of the year?

[Auntie.Gerald]

I don't agree rogue

The Swans have always struggled to reset against chip , mark , switch uncontested footy because we want to hunt in packs (high pressure defence) and that is very difficult against uncontested footy.........or we sit back in numbers and this is the area that the hawks have become so adept at.

They switch and switch and dab kick until they find the space and double runners they are looking for

The worst against a style like the Hawks is that when we get the ball we are so predictable that the hawks flood back as a plus 1 plus 2 setup to ensure they get possession again and go straight back to uncontested ......all on their terms

The hawks know that we loose our rhythm our confidence when we are not hunting and fighting for that contested footy

Now don't get me wrong - I love contested footy and it has massive advantages.?????@?? And as we saw if we succeed and get the game on our terms we can blow most teams away

But we need to be able to adjust in periods when we are starved of the footy and play the same uncontested footy on our terms so we can also starve the opposition and nullify the scoreboard impact

None of us would even be talking about the two main styles of footy if the hawks didn't achieve separation on the scoreboard and for me the ability to keep the scoreboard even in periods the other teams have momentum is key

Then if we keep an even scoreboard and arrest the opposition momentum that's when we rain hell with our proven contested footy

[caj23]

How many games would you like us to lose. Would it make you happy to not sing the club song for the rest of the year?

We can't make finals now so what's the point of finishing an honourable 9th or 10th.

Within reason we should use the rest of this season to:

1. Manage our senior players, that means surgery/rest for anyone not right, a 1 or 2 game break for warriors such as Grundy/Smith/Kennedy who aren't injured but have been pushed hard over the last 5-6 seasons

2. Games into some of our younger players for experience and in some cases (haywood, florent) and to see what they can do at senior level in others (Fox Edwards)

3. Experiment with game plan and positions to see what works and what doesn't for example Rohan off half back, Allir as 2nd ruck

If we can do this and win another 3- 4 wins to maintain a top five pick then I think we can genuinely take something positive out of the season.

If we continue the way we are going playing inconsistent football with the same old players and gameplan and finish 10th or 11th then it's a completely wasted season

[Nico]

I don't agree rogue

The Swans have always struggled to reset against chip , mark , switch uncontested footy because we want to hunt in packs (high pressure defence) and that is very difficult against uncontested footy.........or we sit back in numbers and this is the area that the hawks have become so adept at.

They switch and switch and dab kick until they find the space and double runners they are looking for

The worst against a style like the Hawks is that when we get the ball we are so predictable that the hawks flood back as a plus 1 plus 2 setup to ensure they get possession again and go straight back to uncontested ......all on their terms

The hawks know that we loose our rhythm our confidence when we are not hunting and fighting for that contested footy

Now don't get me wrong - I love contested footy and it has massive advantages.?????@?? And as we saw if we succeed and get the game on our terms we can blow most teams away

But we need to be able to adjust in periods when we are starved of the footy and play the same uncontested footy on our terms so we can also starve the opposition and nullify the scoreboard impact

None of us would even be talking about the two main styles of footy if the hawks didn't achieve separation on the scoreboard and for me the ability to keep the scoreboard even in periods the other teams have momentum is key

Then if we keep an even scoreboard and arrest the opposition momentum that's when we rain hell with our proven contested footy

Disagree.

[Mug Punter]

We can't make finals now so what's the point of finishing an honourable 9th or 10th.

Within reason we should use the rest of this season to:

1. Manage our senior players, that means surgery/rest for anyone not right, a 1 or 2 game break for warriors such as Grundy/Smith/Kennedy who aren't injured but have been pushed hard over the last 5-6 seasons

2. Games into some of our younger players for experience and in some cases (haywood, florent) and to see what they can do at senior level in others (Fox Edwards)

3. Experiment with game plan and positions to see what works and what doesn't for example Rohan off half back, Allir as 2nd ruck

If we can do this and win another 3- 4 wins to maintain a top five pick then I think we can genuinely take something positive out of the season.

If we continue the way we are going playing inconsistent football with the same old players and gameplan and finish 10th or 11th then it's a completely wasted season

I dislike this approach as we should try and win every game but I agree with you to a large extent.

We absolutely try and win every game, as I don't think one or two draft slots is more beneficial than destroying a team culture (as with the Dees) but once you are out of the finals race you do change your focus.

Absolutely any player that is carrying a niggle by about Round 15-16 goes under the knife so they are cherry ripe for a full pre-season. This also allows us to get the required games into players we expect to come on next year (Florent, Hayward, Newman and Melican) and also give a good taste to some guys that may not have been given a chance if we were in the mix (Maubain and Cameron).

I think we'll finish above the ledger for the last 16 rounds. Even if it means we finish 9-13 overall would see us finishing 12th or 13th meaning we get pick 6 or 7. We'd have to be tempted to go for a KPF if that were the case

[Boddo]

I dislike this approach as we should try and win every game but I agree with you to a large extent.

We absolutely try and win every game, as I don't think one or two draft slots is more beneficial than destroying a team culture (as with the Dees) but once you are out of the finals race you do change your focus.

Absolutely any player that is carrying a niggle by about Round 15-16 goes under the knife so they are cherry ripe for a full pre-season. This also allows us to get the required games into players we expect to come on next year (Florent, Hayward, Newman and Melican) and also give a good taste to some guys that may not have been given a chance if we were in the mix (Maubain and Cameron).

I think we'll finish above the ledger for the last 16 rounds. Even if it means we finish 9-13 overall would see us finishing 12th or 13th meaning we get pick 6 or 7. We'd have to be tempted to go for a KPF if that were the case

Agree with this 100%. You want to try to build a winning culture. You can see what Melbourne did n it almost destroyed the club. This year atm I'd think Brander or Sutherland, if he nominates footy over cricket, would be up there as the top KPF. But both might go earlier than that you predicted.

[caj23]

Melbourne have had a losing culture for 20 years + I hardly think we're in the same boat as them

I'm not suggesting we obviously tank, but if we keep serving up the same crap and don't use this year to try a few new things (and players), then its a wasted opportunity.

All the optimism in the world isn't going to get us into the finals now

[Dosser]

Signing any coach to a deal more than 2 - 3 years so long is insanity as the current system shows. Tell me where was he going if we hadn't signed him up for more years . If he did so be it we get another coach, change shouldn't be feared it should be embraced. I trust the club enough that will make an astute selection.

Not its not just the loss to the Hawks, its being 3-7 and after 7 years still being unable to play a Plan B against teams who we know will play a certain way.

If i was being cruel I could also mention the failure to turn up in a GF (totally inexcusable) and losing last year because again no Plan B. We let the Bulldogs have too much uncontested footy and marks which has always killed us.

Pointing out that its 7 years confirms the biggest single problem, complacency. There has only ever been once really successful coach with long tenure, Sir Alex Ferguson and even he completely changed his assistants every 2 or 3 years. John is not in his class and nor has he changed assistants anywhere near enough.

If we finish say 5 - 17 and lose the first 5 next season are you still going to say there is no way he will be sacked. Nobody should ever feel they are irreplaceable because we all are. I think John should negotiate a move upstairs with a large element of hand=off mentoring and we should move some in from outside of the club.

Also lets not forget we overpaid Roosey to be academy coach so we could move John into the role. Lets not forget he was still getting $1m for coaching the academy and only moved on when he was told the amount was going to revert to what the role was worth. A pay-out or resignation or some other deal anything is possible.

I don't expect finals or success but I would like to play a team like Hawthorn with an approach that screams out hey we are thinking about how you consistently beat us and want to try something new.

While change is often good when it comes to gameplans, etc I think that the slamming of Longmire in these forums is a bit much. There are 16 other coaches who would love to have his record, and I suspect that he is possibly a better AFL coach than some people in here. He has introduced a lot of new playing talent over the last 14 months and knows a lot more about what is happening behind the scenes than I do. For that reason, I think we made a good decision and we are in pretty good hands.

[Mug Punter]

Signing any coach to a deal more than 2 - 3 years so long is insanity as the current system shows. Tell me where was he going if we hadn't signed him up for more years . If he did so be it we get another coach, change shouldn't be feared it should be embraced. I trust the club enough that will make an astute selection.

Not its not just the loss to the Hawks, its being 3-7 and after 7 years still being unable to play a Plan B against teams who we know will play a certain way.

If i was being cruel I could also mention the failure to turn up in a GF (totally inexcusable) and losing last year because again no Plan B. We let the Bulldogs have too much uncontested footy and marks which has always killed us.

Pointing out that its 7 years confirms the biggest single problem, complacency. There has only ever been once really successful coach with long tenure, Sir Alex Ferguson and even he completely changed his assistants every 2 or 3 years. John is not in his class and nor has he changed assistants anywhere near enough.

If we finish say 5 - 17 and lose the first 5 next season are you still going to say there is no way he will be sacked. Nobody should ever feel they are irreplaceable because we all are. I think John should negotiate a move upstairs with a large element of hand=off mentoring and we should move some in from outside of the club.

Also lets not forget we overpaid Roosey to be academy coach so we could move John into the role. Lets not forget he was still getting $1m for coaching the academy and only moved on when he was told the amount was going to revert to what the role was worth. A pay-out or resignation or some other deal anything is possible.

I don't expect finals or success but I would like to play a team like Hawthorn with an approach that screams out hey we are thinking about how you consistently beat us and want to try something new.

Surely you can't be serious with this post.

You honestly believe that having coaches on two year deal is the way forward with the constant uncertainty and possible poaching if they are successful.

We did turn up in the GF, we lost by 22 points and it has been admitted by the AFL itself that the Doggies got 4 goals from free kicks they shouldn't have. Your comment wasn't cruel but just plain insulting.

I do agree the Horse is probably coming to the end of his cycle as a coach. This is season 7 for him and I am sure the messages do get a bit tired but I don't think your kneejerk response is the answer

[707]

Making the finals? we need to win 9 but probably more likely 10 of the remaining 12 games. Highly unlikely given we have games away against Crows, Geelong & GWS, those games coming quite late in the season at rounds 17, 20 & 22. The season might be realistically gone by as early as the Bulldogs game next Thursday.

So we keep aiming for finals until we have lost another 4 games, which may be before late season, then reset for a tilt at 2018.

We get our first early start to a preseason since 2010, we can send players for minor procedures early which makes them available for the full and month longer (than being a GF'ist) preseason, we can get senior games into less experienced players that we expect to be best 22 in 2018 including rookies who can be upgraded when we put players on LTI for surgery.

This is not tanking, this is intelligent player management to enhance our 2018 prospects. I'd expect us to also be at the pointy end of the draft, around 6-8ish and if Reid jumps ship for big money in Melbourne, add another pick straight after our first, then a mid 20s pick. Gives us good picks and/or ability to shuffle high end picks like we did last year.

Kinnear Beatson & crew will be enjoying looking at pointy end prospects for the first time in years.

[S.S. Bleeder]

We can't make finals now so what's the point of finishing an honourable 9th or 10th.

Within reason we should use the rest of this season to:

1. Manage our senior players, that means surgery/rest for anyone not right, a 1 or 2 game break for warriors such as Grundy/Smith/Kennedy who aren't injured but have been pushed hard over the last 5-6 seasons

2. Games into some of our younger players for experience and in some cases (haywood, florent) and to see what they can do at senior level in others (Fox Edwards)

3. Experiment with game plan and positions to see what works and what doesn't for example Rohan off half back, Allir as 2nd ruck

If we can do this and win another 3- 4 wins to maintain a top five pick then I think we can genuinely take something positive out of the season.

If we continue the way we are going playing inconsistent football with the same old players and gameplan and finish 10th or 11th then it's a completely wasted season

+1

[707]

A rumour on BF (yes I know!) that we have spoken to Steven May. Could it be true that we are planning a daring raid this off season?