2017 trading, drafting, list management

[Boddo]

It's worth thinking about who we can poach, especially to bolster our outside run and rebound. Is there anyone speedy and skilful who might be gettable? I just ran my eyes over the Suns and Giants lists. I wonder what we'd have to give up to get Jack Martin? Perhaps more achievable would be to have another crack at Isaac Cumming who we bid on at last year's draft - he hasn't been extended at GWS yet. (Rohan for Cumming?) Ditto for Nathan Wilson. Overall the Giants have done a great job of locking down their list. By re-signing Whitfield and Kelly they will have to be prepared to give up Devon Smith but they'll get something decent back for him. Likewise if they trade Matt Kennedy they'll get something back. The Giants have an embarrassment of riches with Wilson, Williams and Shaw on top of their midfielders like Scully, Shiel, Whitfield and Kelly. All of those guys have top shelf pace and skill. Anyway, more thought needs to go into who we can target to give us speedy rebound (not necessarily from the Giants).

However, our list has some prospects. Newman is very skilful and will become more consistent at the level. Florent and Hayward are both quick and skilful and Florent in particular can one day move into the midfield. Then there are players like Murray, COR, Edwards, who may or may not make it but who are quick and hopefully at least one of them can make it.

The other type of player we might be targeting could be another KPD (despite having quite a number on our list already and subject to if any are delisted: Reg, Aliir, Melican, Talia, AJ, Maibaum). Finlayson from the Giants hasn't had much opportunity at the Giants and is 196 cm and will turn 22 years old before next season begins and is only contracted until next year at this stage. Ludwig has suggested this more than once before (although not recently that I've noticed).

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None of my points had anything to do with Lukosius in particular. As I said, I'm happy to take your word for his ability - so there's nothing to discuss on that front.

Please don't take this in an offensive way because honestly I don't mean it that way. But I never progressed any further with our conversation because honestly I can't take you seriously when you say you don't know who he is. The whole conversation revolves about recruiting Lukosious n goes to the premis of how good he will be and what we'd have to part with to get someone that good so to say you don't know means you don't have an understanding of how good he'll be and means you wouldn't have an understanding of the talent you have to give up to get him. The equivalent in terms of drafting is like you saying a few years ago to me "let's try n get Lance Franklin as a fee agent next year for a million a season" n then explaining how good he is n me saying "I trust you but I don't know who he is". You'd laugh at me n I wouldn't blame you. On the trade I said it was hypothetical n a dream to start off with so I'm pretty sure it's 99.99% not going to happen but I put up 3 names as an example, you start the conversation at the end of this year with what I said at the exit meeting n slowly keep prodding n pushing till you get your outcome. You don't just tell him that n drop him to the reserves, you want a player that plays good so you can actually get that trade to happen. He's worth sfa if he's in the neafl. By the time that happens your not moving him n he's asking to leave. It sounds underhanded n below the belt I agree but it happens all the time. The general public just doesn't hear about it. Happened with Stuart Anderson from Norf. He was doing the Carey long before Carey jumped on Stevens mrs. Club slowly but surely moved on a premiership player who had heaps of talent n potential. Couldn't change his ways at freo n was dumped by them to. It happens regularly. Andrew Swallow all year has been played out of position n the hints are there. He knows they want him gone. It's obvious. I never mentioned Parker at all so I don't know why you mentioned his name. And just because something hasn't been done before doesn't mean it can't be done. Everyone laughed at Andrew Ireland when he signed Lynch to a ten year contract at Brisbane because it hadn't been done before. In the end it was the blueprint that got us to sign Franklin. Like I said it's a dream hypothetical that most likely will not happen. But that's what this sub forum is for.

And to add this is what was supposed to be done for the mini draft to get a player like Martin but no club had the balls to do it so GWS n GC just swapped it all between them. N traded the best 17 year old talent between them.

[goswannies]

Don't know.
I remember when Barry Hall signed a million dollar contract and then spent the next four years kicking behinds.
It must be mental.

Yeah but a fair number of those behinds were covered by opposition clubs' shorts

[CureTheSane]

Why the Swans should target 'Libba': Sydney's 2017 season in review

"If the Bulldogs and Libba are looking at a fresh start, what better place than the Swans? The club's history of instilling a new approach in players' careers and setting them up for amazing results is famous, with their strong culture and leadership.

At 25, "Libba'' should be at the peak of his powers and at his best is one of the premium clearance and contested ball players in the game. The tight confines and high-stoppage style at the SCG would suit his game, and he would become a nice addition around the contest with Parker, Kennedy and Heeney."

I would struggle to get past his old man's 'scratching' of Paul Kelly.
No Libba's at the Swans

[Boddo]

I would struggle to get past his old man's 'scratching' of Paul Kelly.
No Libba's at the Swans

+1

[CureTheSane]

Is Zak Jones over-rated? I'm going to go against the grain here. He's a model for inconsistency and turns the ball over too many times. I can only remember him being good for a couple of games early on this season, then everyone jumped on his bandwagon. Just re-signed but I'd put him on the trade table.

Yep, +1
Hasn't been able to claw back to the standard he set earlier on.
Takes his eyes off the ball, fumbles, miss kicks, kicks poorly, and worst, not providing the run that we rely on him for.

[Mug Punter]

Jones wasn't Robinson Crusoe out there having a mare last Friday. let's cut him some slack. He provides genuine pace and talk of trading him is beyond ridiculous.

I tend to think we'll be pretty quiet in trade week but one player will be traded, probably for a third round upgrade we can take our usual three ND picks. It just doesn't make sense to not take that third pick and then go to the Rookie draft and take what should be an inferior player. Could be any number of players. The wildcard would be if Freo want Aliir and are prepared to put Pick 5 on the table as a bundled deal that invoices our first rounder but I don't think they are that stupid.

As for what we'll be looking for at the draft I think pace, pace and pace as well as footskills will be the key factors we'll be looking for. Throw two good kids at 14 and 32 onto our list and we'll be OK.

Next year will be one of changes I feel with McVeigh and maybe Reg retiring and a raft of fringe players (Towers, Robbo, Rose amongst others) coming off contract.

I think talk about us getting the SA kid is just pie in the sky. I would be extremely surprised to see any 2018 first round picks traded this year, the clubs are all too aware that it contains 6-7 KPFs in the top 10-12 and there is no way they will want to trade out of what could be a draft not to be missed. Any future trading I think will be for second rounders who will also be in high demand. I know Blakey may just be outside of the top 1-3 picks but gee it is good that we have access (hopefully) to one of the key talls next year.

The trade period generally will be interesting.

Adelaide wanting two first rounders for Lever seems high to me, I would think the Dees pick 10 plus a combination of second rounders and upgrades should get the job done.

That would open up Gibbes trade to happen and again I think Pick 10 plus the Crows second rounder would get that done. Again that should be enough to get Kennedy and Smith to tread the well worn path from Spotless to Carlton.

Will the Gazza deal happen? , given the prepayment of salary he has received I can only see that happening via a player as part of the deal. I think they'll do it in the end as commercially that is such a compelling deal for the Cats and I think as a small forward he can genuinely still do the business.

[Boddo]

Yep, +1
Hasn't been able to claw back to the standard he set earlier on.
Takes his eyes off the ball, fumbles, miss kicks, kicks poorly, and worst, not providing the run that we rely on him for.

By your description we'd be thankful if Melbourne took him off our hands with their 3rd rounder, pick 45, to play with his brother.

[707]

Boddo, please break up big threads of 17 lines into paragraphs, even if there's not a logical break point :-)

[Boddo]

As for what we'll be looking for at the draft I think pace, pace and pace as well as footskills will be the key factors we'll be looking for. Throw two good kids at 14 and 32 onto our list and we'll be OK.

ATM Id like us to bid on Crossley n if that fails then Shipley from the giants academy. Both most likely would be matched so I'm hoping Balta gets to our first. After that its best available for me. Things might change for me as I watch more finals n review footage that I have. Balta can play most positions so I wouldn't pigeon hole him as a key back or key forward. It's a very very hard draft to judge as it's a very inconsistent draft meaning some clubs might rate say Balta at a top10 n some might rate him top 20.

[Boddo]

Squads for the all-star games

https://www.afldraftcentral.com.au/tag/nicholas-shipley/

[CureTheSane]

Jones wasn't Robinson Crusoe out there having a mare last Friday. let's cut him some slack. He provides genuine pace and talk of trading him is beyond ridiculous.

I should have read what I was quoting properly before I replied. Missed the "trade him" bit which I don't agree with.

My assessment however, wasn't based on just one or two games, that would be unfair (Dean Towers type unfair).

He just needs to work on some areas. He has some great points, hardness is one, speed is another and ability to fend off.
I'm sure he'll pull it together. Hopefully next season he takes it to a new level.
When you hand out a lot of aggression, you tend to get it back when you stuff up, and he stuffed up a bit recently.
So his confidence is probably down a bit and skill errors may be a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy at the moment...

[Ludwig]

ATM Id like us to bid on Crossley n if that fails then Shipley from the giants academy. Both most likely would be matched so I'm hoping Balta gets to our first. After that its best available for me. Things might change for me as I watch more finals n review footage that I have. Balta can play most positions so I wouldn't pigeon hole him as a key back or key forward. It's a very very hard draft to judge as it's a very inconsistent draft meaning some clubs might rate say Balta at a top10 n some might rate him top 20.

Bidding on Crossley does nothing as GC's next pick is in the second round for now. Hopefully someone will bid on Ballendon, forcing Brisbane to use their #12 pick on him, but again, nothing in our control. I think WC will go for a midfielder at pick 13, but even if they wanted a KPP would seem more likely to go for West Australians Naughton or Oscar Allen. I think there is a fair chance that Balta will be available at pick 14. I'm not sure if we'd take him, but seems a good choice. If not, there should be a few decent midfielders with good skills and pace.

There should be a fair number of KPPs in the second round for us, mostly defenders, but of course the quality drops off as we go down the draft order.

Some other thoughts:

• Mug, Harley was quite emphatic that Aliir was not on the trade table and is a required player, so no point in shipping him off to Freo, who have stated that they plan to use their pick 5 anyway. They can get Jarrod Brander if they wish, so why chase a contracted player?
• I had an idea about Gary Rohan. Either play him at Full Forward, where he doesn't have to burn himself out running up and own the ground and can use his burst of speed as a lead up forward, or train him up as the backup ruckman, so is forced to get involved in the play and can't disappear for long periods of the game. Maybe Rohan and Towers could be our ruck duo for 2018 .
• With an intake of 9 players last year, we still have to see how those players develop. I don't see any particular positional need for our list, especially with the prospects we already have and would be happy to take the best player available in this year's draft.

[tlock]

Zak Jones will be the next Sam Reid. We'll just keep waiting for his breakout year that never eventuates.

[Boddo]

Bidding on Crossley does nothing as GC's next pick is in the second round for now. Hopefully someone will bid on Ballendon, forcing Brisbane to use their #12 pick on him, but again, nothing in our control. I think WC will go for a midfielder at pick 13, but even if they wanted a KPP would seem more likely to go for West Australians Naughton or Oscar Allen. I think there is a fair chance that Balta will be available at pick 14. I'm not sure if we'd take him, but seems a good choice. If not, there should be a few decent midfielders with good skills and pace.

There should be a fair number of KPPs in the second round for us, mostly defenders, but of course the quality drops off as we go down the draft order.

[/LIST]

If you believe that the bidding process is the correct way for players from academies to be drafted you should be bidding where you believe they should be taken if not the bidding process is a failure n should be scrapped. Shouldn't be bidding out of spite or to disadvantage clubs or not bidding cause someone might match.

I rate Crossley where our pick is but he could go higher. I'd rate Taylor over Allen. Allen to me is a 2nd rounder. So I'd expect Naughton, Taylor then Allen in that order for west Australians.

Balta could go anywhere. Some people have him top 5 in their power rankings others have him around pick 20. I rate him around our pick.

I still think we'll just miss out on the players I mentioned cause after their testing in the combine I expect them to move that bit higher, Logue shot up the order on his combine results. So we'll probably go best available.

You'll always pick up a good key defender in the 2nd round even as far out as the rookie draft, Grundy, but you'll struggle to get a quality key forward after pick 20ish that plays regular consistent footy.

[Simo]

Are we forgetting what we have in the wings.
Dawson needs a chance, he has sublime kicking in the neafl, so if he goes at 75% at senior level he's our best.
Florent will be so much better
Maibalm will be the gorilla minder for 10 years.
Murray, fisher, Ronke,wicks, Edwards all have the potential to play a more open style, which we need to do in the future.
Mills is slow, he won't give us speed, bit like Pendlebury.
Jones and Papley could be used as crumbling Fwds. If we are stuck with tippo. He stays inside 50 and rams packs.
Rohan could do what Dangerfield did if horse could make a call.
One out he's a tough match up.
Give him the 50. If the loose man goes in. MAN HIM UP!!!

We are ok, a bit of speed, will help, some drafting of new ideas In the coaches box may be more beneficial to our team.