2019 trading, drafting and list management: players and personnel

[Markwebbos]

Id say the stand off between Geelong and Sainys is more to do with who is paying his wage as opposed to the actual pick number
Just another ball the Saints have in the air

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re Steven

100%

[Auntie.Gerald]

Latest rumour is that Carlton want to swap with the cats ie pick 9 for picks 14 and 17

Does that help us ?
I dont think so but we are in the driving seat I believe Re JD and have some flexibility

If we get given picks 14 and 17 for Papley from Carlton plus maybe a later pick like carltons pick 43 would this work for us in the trade with Essendon ?

Picks 14 and 17 plus pick 54 to the bombers for JD seems a little unlikely but maybe better then what they get next year plus $900k this year free in their cap?

Then we will still have the following picks which I assume we will bundle together say 43 and 44 because of lack of spots available on our list

5
25
43 / 44 bundle and worth pick 26 points value
2020 second round pick for Jones

Taylor for our pick 62
Knights for our pick 63
Bennell Nil

Or

We go with a strategy for the next 5 to 8yrs

5
14
17
25
43/44 bundled into pick 26-30
2020 second round pick for Jones

Taylor for our pick 62
Knights for our pick 63
Bennell Nil

[Markwebbos]

Buckenara's assessment of the Swans list. This is the conclusion of his article, mostly stating the obvious.

Category: | Herald Sun

While the Swans could have one of the best forward combinations with Franklin and Daniher from next year, it takes more than two players to build a premiership team. I have concerns over the midfield — Kennedy showed signs of slowing down this year and Parker looked a bit the same to me, they both looked a bit tired. The loss of Zak Jones and Tom Papley takes away a lot of speed and creativity, which the Swans already lack, so I think there is still some work to be done both in the list build and development before they become a premiership threat again.

A middle of the pack finish is where the club finds itself now and that’s probably what we can expect from them next season as Longmire continues to regenerate the list and gets games into young players. They’re an 8-12 side. But I have a lot of respect for Sydney and their ability to fast-track the development of their players so I wouldn’t be surprised if they prove me wrong.

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Also see articles in multiple sources about Aiden Bonar's potential availability for "a top-30 pick"
He's looking for more opportunity.

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Latest rumour is that Carlton want to swap with the cats ie pick 9 for picks 14 and 17

Does that help us ?
I dont think so but we are in the driving seat I believe Re JD and have some flexibility

If we get given picks 14 and 17 for Papley from Carlton plus maybe a later pick like carltons pick 43 would this work for us in the trade with Essendon ?

Picks 14 and 17 plus pick 54 to the bombers for JD seems a little unlikely but maybe better then what they get next year plus $900k this year free in their cap?

Then we will still have the following picks which I assume we will bundle together say 43 and 44 because of lack of spots available on our list

5
25
43 / 44 bundle and worth pick 26 points value
2020 second round pick for Jones

Taylor for our pick 62
Knights for our pick 63
Bennell Nil

Or

We go with a strategy for the next 5 to 8yrs

5
14
17
25
43/44 bundled into pick 26-30
2020 second round pick for Jones

Taylor for our pick 62
Knights for our pick 63
Bennell Nil

Carlton aren't going to split pick 9 and give both 14 and 17 to us, they'll try and use one for Paps and the other for Martin. However Paps and his management have said it needn't necessarily be Carlton, so in theory we could sell him to the highest Melbourne-based-bidder, which could be North.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Agree argument suits either way

But if we don’t get what we want then paps doesn’t get to Melbourne town

If the bombers to hard to deal with maybe a plan B strategy that strengthens our medium to long term success via a diversified draft strategy plus maybe a tall or another midfielder is the way to go

5
14
17
25
43/44 bundled into pick 26-30 traded for an emerging or experienced midfielder at another club

2020 second round pick for Jones

Taylor for our pick 62
Knights for our pick 63
Bennell Nil

[undy]

What is subreddit? What is Clematis? Who is Cliff? Am I missing the joke?

Reddit (the web-site) is built of many sub-reddits. Each one is a little like RWO, a collection of discussions about a specific topic.
So there is the afl sub-reddit , a Sydney Swans sub-reddit, a Sydney sub-reddit etc etc etc

Users typically subscribe to multiple sub-reddits and their Reddit front page has (by default) the more popular posts from those sub-reddits.

My take:
The Swans sub-reddit isn't quite as knowledgeable (no Liz) or popular as RWO, but you don't get the (dreaded by me) mega-threads like this one or the reserves one which are a PITA to read.
The AFL sub-reddit is much less toxic than Big Footy, often quite funny
Other sub-reddits have their own characters - the Sydney and Australia ones tend to be quite progressive, but I understand that (say) the uk one is quite right-wing

Hope that helps. Caution: You may find yourself watching a lot of videos of "animals being bros", or arguing with idiots.

[Auntie.Gerald]

Auntie Gerald wants the Swans to stop wasting money
This really is the silly end of the silly season.

Hey, hey, my, my
Rock and roll can never die
There's more to the picture than meets the eye
Hey, hey, my, my

[Aprilbr]

If Carlton downgrades it's offer to 14 plus for Papley then let's walk away from that deal, hold him to his contract etc. I also am coming to the view that giving up too much for Daniher is not a good idea. This may well mean we never get him but that's less a risk than paying well over for him. Sometimes the best deal is a no deal. It's starting to look like that here. We should get two good players with the first two picks that we currently have.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[KSAS]

Did anyone catch the Trade Show on 7mate tonight? (Andy Mahr, Goddard & Tom Brown).

Andy Mahr (Carlton supporter) was discussing how Carlton can trade in Papley, J Martin & Betts when they only have picks 9, 43, 48 & 72. He suggested they could split their pick 9 (in which trade expert Goddard didn't know what that meant) for picks 17 & 24 with Geelong (according to the draft calculator Carlton would also need trade out their pick 43 to make up the points difference!). They reckon this will FORCE us to accept Pick 17 instead for Papley!!!!!! & pick 24 to GC for Jack Martin. They all agreed Papley is only worth a late 1st round pick!!! Seriously? Have any of them watch Papley play? Who is also on a 4 year contract to boot!!!! Andy also said there's a chance they can pick up Eddie betts for later pick than 48!

Genius Goodard also explained how Geelong can now trade for both Jack Stevens & Brad Crouch, which of course involved their picks 17 24 & their 2020 1st round to Adelaide!!!! Pick 37 to Saints for Stevens. So according to Goodard, Crouch is worth 2 x 1st Rounders AND a 2nd Round compared to Papley just 1 late 1st round!

The amusing bit was Genius Goddard stumbled saying "This trade will enable Adelaide to have a plethora of pricks" (instead of picks), which a smiling Tom Brown quickly replied "I don't agree with that!"

Honestly, I don't want either of the Daniher and Papley's trades to happen when these sort of trade suggestions are thrown up by these biased dim wits disguised as experts!

[Thunder Shaker]

Did anyone catch the Trade Show on 7mate tonight? (Andy Mahr, Goddard & Tom Brown).

Andy Mahr (Carlton supporter) was discussing how Carlton can trade in Papley, J Martin & Betts when they only have picks 9, 43, 48 & 72. He suggested they could split their pick 9 (in which trade expert Goddard didn't know what that meant) for picks 17 & 24 with Geelong (according to the draft calculator Carlton would also need trade out their pick 43 to make up the points difference!). They reckon this will FORCE us to accept Pick 17 instead for Papley!!!!!! & pick 24 to GC for Jack Martin. They all agreed Papley is only worth a late 1st round pick!!! Seriously? Have any of them watch Papley play? Who is also on a 4 year contract to boot!!!! Andy also said there's a chance they can pick up Eddie betts for later pick than 48!

Genius Goodard also explained how Geelong can now trade for both Jack Stevens & Brad Crouch, which of course involved their picks 17 24 & their 2020 1st round to Adelaide!!!! Pick 37 to Saints for Stevens. So according to Goodard, Crouch is worth 2 x 1st Rounders AND a 2nd Round compared to Papley just 1 late 1st round!

The amusing bit was Genius Goddard stumbled saying "This trade will enable Adelaide to have a plethora of pricks" (instead of picks), which a smiling Tom Brown quickly replied "I don't agree with that!"

Honestly, I don't want either of the Daniher and Papley's trades to happen when these sort of trade suggestions are thrown up by these biased dim wits disguised as experts!

These people probably think it's still the 1970s when Carlton could poach players from other clubs at will.

The salient point that seems to be eluding them: Sydney are under no obligation to trade Papley to Carlton because he has a contract. Therefore, Carlton needs to offer something very good to convince Sydney to release Papley from his contract. If the deal isn't good enough, Sydney can say "no" and Carlton get nothing.

[waswan]

If we let Paps go to Hawks for pick 11 ill throw up

[waswan]

We should have tried to do the Pick Swap Adelaide are going to do with GWS
Pick 4 for 12 18 and 2020 1st

[dejavoodoo44]

Same for me, but I'm trying to find some positives in this as time passes and I can get my head around what the future looks like with Daniher in and Papley and Jones out.

What annoys me the most about the Daniher trade is a 2020 without Daniher is probably better than 2020 with Daniher, because it gives more opportunity to players we should take a closer look at, and having Daniher will use a spot that could be used for this purpose (and if Daniher can't play, it's even worse):

1. I would like to see if Menzel can get in a full pre-season and how he might fit into the forward mix.
2. Hayden McLean: I would like to see how he goes as a forward, rather than mainly as a ruckman, where he's not really qualified at AFL level.
3. Joel Amartey is a raw talent with some real upside. It should be a key year in his development and he may be ready for a few games at senior level.

It might turn out that we really don't need a Daniher in any case. We already have 2 young players McCartin and Blakey to form the core of a powerful forward line after the end of the Franklin era.

But I think Daniher is coming to us and we will lose Papley, Jones and Cameron, for no other reason than these kind of deals almost always get done. I agree with those that we shouldn't be offering much for Daniher, but I imagine that 1 of our first rounders is going to be our offer. I just hope it's not more, because it's already overs. We should also make sure we get fair compensation for players leaving.

We finished 15th. We are not in a position to show the kind generosity we have in the past.

Losing Papley and to a lesser extent Jones, is a bit of a setback, but I think we can cover both. It usually doesn't look easy at first, but other players step up and it turns out okay.

We will likely recruit a couple of decent players to cover their spots, who may not be as good, but nonetheless are AFL ready. Some of the names mentioned so far have been Taylor, Cutler, Acres, Knight and Bennell. Other names pop up as trade week moves toward a close.

If the version of Joe Daniher we get is of the 2017 variety, we will all be happy we did the trade. But it could be another Kurt Tippett, or worse. I don't think it's worth the risk. The best way to mitigate the risk would be to wait till next year and get him as a free agent, if he can prove he's fit to play. The long off season will seem even longer next year, especially when JD misses multiple training sessions.

Funny how Adrian Dodoro's stubbornness may be our salvation. But I think there will be an override from higher up at Essendon and trade will get done, for whatever terms are on the table next Wednesday evening.

Agree with pretty much all of that, but one thing (or person) that I would add, is Callum Sinclair. It seems to me, that everybody has forgotten about how good a season he was having, before he got injured. And if Daniher arrives, he and Sinclair may be battling for one spot? That is, if Naismith is the number one ruckman, then those two will be going for the second ruck/big forward role. While Daniher has got more athleticism, Sinclair has probably got more heart. Which means that I would rather Sinclair in the team.

[dejavoodoo44]

Dougal Howard has now requested a trade to the Saints which will further complicate things now they are chasing four players in Brad Hill, Patrick Ryder, Zak Jones and Howard. Not sure how that's all going to get done.

Not sure how St Kilda has suddenly become a 'destination club', either?

[dejavoodoo44]

I've been thinking that, but not necessarily about the Saints. My guess is that they've been trying so hard to lure players to them, without success, that they've bitten off more than they can chew this year, but they'll find someway to fit them in, even if that means discarding other players.

But I have been wondering about the Giants and Eagles in particular.

Yeo, McGovern (who we know signed a big dollar contract last year, probably the biggest for a defender), Shuey, Gaff, JJK, NicNat, Darling, Sheed and now Kelly. Plus a pretty solid "next tier" of players like Shepherd, Jetta, Barrass, Ryan (who will still be on his first contract in 2020 but will earn a decent payrise when he renews). How do they fit Kelly in on top of what they already have?

Giants have secured Coniglio, and also have Kelly and Greene on handsome contracts - maybe not as much as they would have got elsewhere but still sizeable. Then you throw in the likes of Davis, Williams, Ward, emerging (or maybe fully emerged) mids in Hopper and Taranto. And yet they seem confident they will be able to retain both Cameron - the reigning Coleman medallist and AA Whitfield. Even with Tomlinson and Patton on the way out, it's really hard to see how they all fit.

I've also been wondering about third party deals for a while. As in, how could Hawthorn win premierships, and still successfully lure anyone that they targeted (even if they got rid of aging stars)? Or how can Geelong fit Dangerfield, Ablett and Selwood under their salary cap? Or how could Richmond sign Lynch, when they already have Rance, Riewoldt, Martin and Cotchin?

So, anyway, I have tried Googling information on what clubs are spending and on who they're spending it, but it seems that there's pretty well nothing there. Largely the search results are: Chris Judd scandal, a bit about the AFL knocking back a proposed Ablett payment and some technical stuff about what third party payments are. As far as I can tell, there's nothing about individual deals, or even how much each club spends? Which tends to make me suspicious.

[dejavoodoo44]

Did anyone catch the Trade Show on 7mate tonight? (Andy Mahr, Goddard & Tom Brown).

Andy Mahr (Carlton supporter) was discussing how Carlton can trade in Papley, J Martin & Betts when they only have picks 9, 43, 48 & 72. He suggested they could split their pick 9 (in which trade expert Goddard didn't know what that meant) for picks 17 & 24 with Geelong (according to the draft calculator Carlton would also need trade out their pick 43 to make up the points difference!). They reckon this will FORCE us to accept Pick 17 instead for Papley!!!!!! & pick 24 to GC for Jack Martin. They all agreed Papley is only worth a late 1st round pick!!! Seriously? Have any of them watch Papley play? Who is also on a 4 year contract to boot!!!! Andy also said there's a chance they can pick up Eddie betts for later pick than 48!

Genius Goodard also explained how Geelong can now trade for both Jack Stevens & Brad Crouch, which of course involved their picks 17 24 & their 2020 1st round to Adelaide!!!! Pick 37 to Saints for Stevens. So according to Goodard, Crouch is worth 2 x 1st Rounders AND a 2nd Round compared to Papley just 1 late 1st round!

The amusing bit was Genius Goddard stumbled saying "This trade will enable Adelaide to have a plethora of pricks" (instead of picks), which a smiling Tom Brown quickly replied "I don't agree with that!"

Honestly, I don't want either of the Daniher and Papley's trades to happen when these sort of trade suggestions are thrown up by these biased dim wits disguised as experts!

Just a bit surprised that none of them mentioned that Carlton has really good coffee.