2023 List Management

[giant]

How galling is to watch Dawson/Allir/Serong/Daniher playing elsewhere when they should all be playing for us? Our list management has some serious questions to be answering for.

[Roadrunner]

How galling is to watch Dawson/Allir/Serong/Daniher playing elsewhere when they should all be playing for us? Our list management has some serious questions to be answering for.

We can and should question our list management, but Dawso and Allir left for more money. You maybe right about Serong but Daniher was a risk and we couldn’t trade with the Dodo. But yes, it hurts!

[giant]

What do you reckon, are Allir and Dawson worth whatever they may have been asking? I suspect so.

[i'm-uninformed2]

How galling is to watch Dawson/Allir/Serong/Daniher playing elsewhere when they should all be playing for us? Our list management has some serious questions to be answering for.

I’m all for questioning and debate our list management. But let’s be clear on some of these.

We offered Dawson 5 years at $650K. He’s on approx that at the Crows. It’s about him running home, not dollars or list management.

Allir was a consequence of our cap crunch, and wanting a ruck in Hickey when we had none.

And Daniher only happened if we let Papley go, to get one of the two draft picks they wanted - pick 9 from Carlton. The other one was pick five, which we used on Stephens. But we get Daniher, and we have no pick to get Serong anyway. So Daniher equals no Paps and no Serong anyway.

[liz]

And Daniher only happened if we let Papley go, to get one of the two draft picks they wanted - pick 9 from Carlton. The other one was pick five, which we used on Stephens. But we get Daniher, and we have no pick to get Serong anyway. So Daniher equals no Paps and no Serong anyway.

If my memory serves me correctly, Beatson had ruled out trading that year's first round pick. What was being floated by the media was the pick we might have got (but didn't really want) for Papley plus our future first round pick. So had it gone through, we'd be without McDonald rather than Stephens. And Papley, of course. Shudder.

Whatever one thinks of Daniher (and his inconsistency), and acknowledging we can still only hope that McDonald approaches that level (different role and hopefully with greater consistency if he gets close), demographically McDonald is a better fit for our list.

[gloveski]

If my memory serves me correctly, Beatson had ruled out trading that year's first round pick. What was being floated by the media was the pick we might have got (but didn't really want) for Papley plus our future first round pick. So had it gone through, we'd be without McDonald rather than Stephens. And Papley, of course. Shudder.

Whatever one thinks of Daniher (and his inconsistency), and acknowledging we can still only hope that McDonald approaches that level (different role and hopefully with greater consistency if he gets close), demographically McDonald is a better fit for our list.

Dodged an absolute bullet with Daniher way to inconsistent . Give me paps and McDonald any day of the week


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Roadrunner]

What do you reckon, are Allir and Dawson worth whatever they may have been asking? I suspect so.

Absolutely and without doubt. However, I don’t think we had the coin.

[The Big Cat]

Kinnear Beatson has stated that it was COVID’s isolating impact on Dawson’s partner that forced him home. He would have stayed otherwise. Club tried everything to keep him but in the end other forces were stronger.

[gloveski]

Other than Sheldrick and possibly Hall-Kahan and Warner the rest look a long way off . Won’t pass judgement on Konstanty due to first game after injury . Mcandrew and Owen will take time and we’re drafted with this knowledge .But our depth is woeful and there all really skinny except for Sheldrick . It just shows when Kirk and Cleary come on and play significant minutes . I look at Cowan at Carlton and Allan at the pies and think we’ve missed a opportunity to draft a bit of size that can play in multiple positions. It’s like we don’t like to recruit 6 foot utilities in the Mills mold that other teams have plenty of

[Roadrunner]

Other than Sheldrick and possibly Hall-Kahan and Warner the rest look a long way off . Won’t pass judgement on Konstanty due to first game after injury . Mcandrew and Owen will take time and we’re drafted with this knowledge .But our depth is woeful and there all really skinny except for Sheldrick . It just shows when Kirk and Cleary come on and play significant minutes . I look at Cowan at Carlton and Allan at the pies and think we’ve missed a opportunity to draft a bit of size that can play in multiple positions. It’s like we don’t like to recruit 6 foot utilities in the Mills mold that other teams have plenty of

Yes, I don’t get our obsession drafting midfield types rather than talls. Surely there was some talent over the last few years we could have drafted, albeit in later picks. Our only early pick of a KPP was Logan and the top teams seem to be taller than us and have better overhead marks. With Amartey and Sammy injury prone, we only have Isaac up front capable of a pack mark, beside Logan, though Paps can grab them as well as Wilbur, but we can’t rely on them due to their size. So it’s hard to understand why we bomb it forward so often- surely we have to adapt our play to suit the players we have, and develop our attacks accordingly. Let’s face it- we are very short of above average talls and will be for some time to come.

[i'm-uninformed2]

If my memory serves me correctly, Beatson had ruled out trading that year's first round pick. What was being floated by the media was the pick we might have got (but didn't really want) for Papley plus our future first round pick. So had it gone through, we'd be without McDonald rather than Stephens. And Papley, of course. Shudder.

Whatever one thinks of Daniher (and his inconsistency), and acknowledging we can still only hope that McDonald approaches that level (different role and hopefully with greater consistency if he gets close), demographically McDonald is a better fit for our list.

Your take on what Beatson said and we were willing to do is correct. But to get Daniher, we had to pay what Essendon wanted and that was two first round picks in the 2019 draft. Either way, I’m glad we avoided it all.

And besides, without Paps being with us in 2020 and his wayward kicking in the final game v Geelong, there’s no Logan. So sliding doors and all that.

[liz]

And besides, without Paps being with us in 2020 and his wayward kicking in the final game v Geelong, there’s no Logan. So sliding doors and all that.

Doesn't that assume that, without Papley - and thus his wayward kicking in that game - that someone else would have had the shots and converted them? Maybe, without Papley, we would have secured that low ladder finish more emphatically!

[KSAS]

I am overall happy with our list management considering we were bottom 4 in 2019 & 2020 to then catapult into finals in 2021 and GF last year. Look at where Hawthorn are now with their list management strategy when we were both top 4 combatants less than a decade ago. Also look at clubs like Carlton, Essendon, North and Saints who have struggled for an eternity to attain any sustained success.

With the benefit of hindsight our miss was Stephens over Serong. Agree with others that we dodged a bullett with Daniher and its draft ramifications. Losing Allir & Dawson was due to circumstances but still hurts. Hurts even more after hearing Adelaide official say how Dawson has exceeded their expectations in transitioning into a midfield beast & Captain. We knew that potential all along!!!

The loss of Paddy has re-ignited Allir's departure pain.

The loss of Darcy Cameron and Nankervis can also be critically viewed with the benefit of hindsight. But every club has similar stories.

We've far more gained than lost with our list management/draft decisions overall.

[Ruck'n'Roll]

Agree with others that we dodged a bullett with Daniher and its draft ramifications. Losing Allir & Dawson was due to circumstances but still hurts.

I absolutely agree with your methodology KSAS, it's impossible to effectively analyse any trade/recruit if you don't look at the costs as well as the benefit. Effective analysis can be beyond some people, who simply like to cheer the red and the white - and react negatively to to doubts and hypertheticals. Bbut I don't think it hurts to get a little cerabral sometimes.

[giant]

I don't know the details of what was asked/what was offered, and of course you don't win every deal, but it strikes me that part of your role as list managers is not to let unique talent that is on your list leave, for dollars or any other excuse (at least not unless something of equal value comes in). It doesn't strike me that there is anything in the way of hindsight with Dawson and Allir either - they were quite clearly exceptional talents that still had upside.

We got dead lucky with Paddy McC but sadly that feels like it may have been a one year deal. Now we look dreadfully exposed in any number of areas. Let's see how quickly we can turn things around I guess.

As for Joe D, it's simply my view that you don't turn your back on mobile 200+cm ruck/forwards with years in the system that want to come to your club - they are rare beasts. The question mark (and it was certainly real) on Daniher was his health - the Lions have done very well to manage that. Who knows whether we would have been more successful, but right now he would clearly be our #1 tall forward.